pinching Deodar cedar

[shibui]

Heres some pics to show how I have been managing new shoots on Deodar cedar.

Cedrus deodar 2012 01.JPG

When the new shoots are long enough to get hold of between finger tips its time to start pinching out the tips.

Cedrus deodar 2012 01 new shoots.JPG

Hold the end of the new shoot between finger and thumb and pull gently until it breaks.

Cedrus deodar 2012 01 pinch new shoot.JPG

This tree had not been repotted for a few years and was looking pretty sick last year. I gave it a pretty severe rootprune and repotted in July and it is looking much better this year. This is the second growth spurt this season.

I have seen deodars with much neater foliage. This one always looks a bit untidy with needles in all directions so any suggestions are welcome.
Anyone with experience with cedars is welcome to contribute other ideas and alternative techniques here too.

Note that this technique is for MAINTENANCE - once the tree has reached its desired size.
For DEVELOPING trees allow shoots can be allowed to grow long then cut back to activate dormant buds and build thickness and ramification. Like most conifers they are reluctant to produce buds on bare wood so only prune back to the lowest needles.

[reddoggy]

Hi I have got one of these trees and a lot of people including myself do not know how to look after them.so I was waiting for a few replies to the first post so I could get to learn about them,they do not seem to respond to wiring as they seem to spring back into the original shape, would appreciate any information on how to train them thanks.

[Matthew]

Neil i have my large formal upright at 1metre and use the same technique except this spring i allowed the tree free growth for awhile than cut back to buds . second growth is extending now and quite strong and i will pinch this . keeping it tidy is always a challange, a combination of wiring, removing downward growth and pinching sounds like junipers. Atlantic is so much neater but god finding a good one for sale is hard to find.

[shibui]

reddoggy, Its been a long time since this tree had any wire on but I don't remember it being that difficult to set. Back then the wire would probably have been left on for quite a long time though.

Matt - good comment about letting the tree grow a bit and cut back to buds or interior branches. Astute viewers will no doubt have picked up that each time the tree is pinched the growth gets slightly longer so over time the tree gets bigger and bigger. Every now and then apex and branches need to be pruned back and a side shoot becomes the end of the branch/ trunk so in effect the tree grows slowly larger then gets reduced in size then starts growing larger over again

[boom64]

Hi Shibui.
Great photos and explanations,can the Libani and Atlantica Cedars be treated the same ? Especialy in regards to root prune and repot in july.
Thanks John.

[Mojo Moyogi]

Atlantic is so much neater but god finding a good one for sale is hard to find.

Hey Matt, you will just have to grow some atlanticas in the ground for a few years then. I have 100 small ones going in this April, with the intention of them becoming Shohin informals and formal uprights.

Cheers,
Mojo

[shibui]

John,
As far as I'm aware other cedars are maintained the same way also Abies sp that have a similar growth habit. Remember this technique is for maintaining an advanced tree, not for developing a young tree.

Good to hear someone is growing some atlanticas for the future Mojo. I've got a couple of seedlings from seed Alpine art dropped in a couple of years ago but it would probably be good to have a few more coming along too.

[bodhidharma]

Good stuff Shibui. I am sure a lot of beginners (and advanced ) would appreciate the advice. I do the same, end tipping them and every other year i cut back like Matthew does. They are a difficult tree to keep tidy and therefore i do not sell many.

[craigw60]

I grow a couple of cedars and keep the foliage looking neat by pulling off all the needles from underneath the branches. Like Matthew I tend to let them romp for a while in spring then prune with scissors and pinch the following new growth.
Craigw

[JaseH]

Just bringing this thread back! Has anyone experimented with feeding/watering to keep new growth a bit more compact/restrained on these?

I have an old one that I'd ideally like to keep maintained now, but it does its best to explode out all over the place into a hairy mess around this time of year. I've been keeping it a little on the dry side to see if limits some of the new growth but so far doesn’t look to be helping? Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any success?

[MoGanic]

Just bringing this thread back! Has anyone experimented with feeding/watering to keep new growth a bit more compact/restrained on these?

I have an old one that I'd ideally like to keep maintained now, but it does its best to explode out all over the place into a hairy mess around this time of year. I've been keeping it a little on the dry side to see if limits some of the new growth but so far doesn’t look to be helping? Would be interested to hear if anyone else has had any success?

Hi mate,

I have a Libani which I conducted an experiment with last growing season, that will be repeated this growing season.

I started out letting it put on some growth early on and just pinching out all the buds that looked like they were getting too strong - with Libani's this tends to be the buds towards the top of the tree. About mid spring my fertiliser cakes were gone and no more was applied.

I continued this until the tree started to slow down and then left it to it's own devices. Pretty much is normal procedure up to this point.

I then waited till mid-ish summer (gauge how fast your tree grows) and I cut back the new growth fairly hard leaving only a little of this years growth.

This then set it up for a new flush of growth which has a shorter time in which to grow and harden off before Autumn. Similar process to black pines but seemingly much more forgiving.

The result was half size needles.

The problem is, it takes a proper long time to get all the needles to match the shorter ones and in the short term, it actually looks more messy.

Will be running second year of the experiment this year to see what happens. If all goes well, by year three I should be able to remove all of the longer needles without it harming the tree, and this would set it up to be displayed - or in my case... have a photo taken of it!

I wouldn't do this every year though, just get it to it's peak then allow it to grow out some and regain vigour - then start again .

Cheers,
Mo

[JaseH]

Thanks Mo, I'll be interested to hear it goes for you this year using this technique.

[Akhi]

Any update on how the technique worked? I have a few year old seedlings which I have just let grow is there any specific treatment you would suggest to put on trunk girth other than feeding and footwork?


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[shibui]

is there any specific treatment you would suggest to put on trunk girth other than feeding and footwork?

As far as I'm aware there's only 2 things that will help put girth on a cedar trunk.
1. Time - lots of it. Cedars are very slow
2. Sacrifice branches - allow some branches to grow long, especially some low ones but you will also need to pick out some for the framework of the tree and keep those in check so you'll have buds and ramification for the future.

[Akhi]

is there any specific treatment you would suggest to put on trunk girth other than feeding and footwork?

As far as I'm aware there's only 2 things that will help put girth on a cedar trunk.
1. Time - lots of it. Cedars are very slow
2. Sacrifice branches - allow some branches to grow long, especially some low ones but you will also need to pick out some for the framework of the tree and keep those in check so you'll have buds and ramification for the future.

Thanks Shibui, have you ever done trunk fusion for Cedars? Like that thread on maples.


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