Picea: In trouble, half the branches bare ...

[legoman_iac]

Hey AusBonsai-ers,

This is a follow on from another thread where I'd posted an image gallery of my picea "over the years" and some commented that my tree is not looking so good lately, so thought best to start a new topic in this section, which is more relevant than just the photo sharing one (hope that's OK and makes sense?).

Last September I took "Harry" (my picea) into my local bonsai guy and he told me I had to spray it with pesticide as he was under attack by some caterpillars. All the buds had been hollowed out and there were a few strings of thread, from the little terror. So I've been spraying him every two weeks up until end of December (as instructed) but after some other opnions.

My once lush green picea has been struggling for the past 12 months, going less vibrant green and lush to a duller and thinned out (not unlike my hair). As above, I put this down to un-invited guest(s). In the last month or so the branches on the southern side (right hand of first image) have lost their leaves. Some of the branches have dried out and the ends snap off easily.

Could it be I'm not watering it enough. The soil never seems to dry out, and water passes through quite well but I've been only watering once-twice a week, as I'm worried he's too moist. Also suspect too moist as the moss/weeds grow quite well and I occasionally pick them away.



I haven't worried too much as I have one or two branches which are growing as expected, giving me (false?) hope that he'll be OK.



Then the other side looks so desolate it's driven me to posting these images, as I'm a little lost at what to do.



Keen to hear any idea, thoughts, suggestions, etc.

- Daniel

p.s. I have been adding dynamic lifted since September also to boost him along through Summer.

[Jarad]

Hey Daniel, I don't really know much about picea, but from what I've just been reading they don't back bud very well and the majority of their growth is directed to the tips.

You mentioned that the tips were almost all munched out from caterpillars, so could they have killed off all the new growth in the tips and killed off all the branches?

If you scratch the bark off at the tips and near the top, is it still green? Also would dynamic lifter bee a little too aggressive, would seasol be better?

[kcpoole]

Being in Sydney, is it infested with curl grub?
I do not have one myself but looks like root trouble to me.
How long have you had the tree? Any changes to its environment?
When was it last repotted?

Ken

[MoGanic]

I see a lot of that little grass looking weed - super invasive. Get rid of it and the roots in the soil.

How much dynamic lifter have you been placing on the surface? Too much could have damaged the roots.

Looks like something under the soil line for sure, as Ken has suggested, check for grubs. If you do pull it out be sure to take pics!

It looks like it has a slight chance of survival, if we can work out the issue!

Cheers,
Mo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CraigM]

Soil looks very soggy as well, is this usually the case? Wonder if over watering / poor drainage could be a contributor?

[legoman_iac]

Hey All,

Thanks so much for your posts. I'll answer each below, little in-undated, haha. Just went out in the dark of the morning to see if I can catch any bugs in the act, noticed a bunch of web like strands around the dead side, then spotted a bonsai sized spider. Image below, I assume he's on the trail of whatever could be destroying my branches, unless he's gone vegetarian and is the source of my woes?

Also would dynamic lifter bee a little too aggressive, would seasol be better?

Not sure, I've just been doing what my bonsai guy recommends. I used to use Seasol, then switched to fertiliser about 2 years back.

Being in Sydney, is it infested with curl grub?

Didn't know what this was ... a quick google search and found some pics. Never seen anything like this in my yard. They seem pretty big, would have noticed them I'd have thought ... unless I have a bonsai variant?

How long have you had the tree? Any changes to its environment? When was it last repotted?

Have had the tree nearly 5 years. It is 13 years old now. Two years ago I moved it from ground level to a custom build stand/shelf. Didn't get repotted last year, had been doing it anually but been slightly distracted with an 18 month old daughter. Is it worth repotting now as an emergency, or wait until after winter, if he makes it through?

Soil looks very soggy as well, is this usually the case? Wonder if over watering / poor drainage could be a contributor?

Has been the case for probably 6 months I think ... as just mentioned, been a little distracted. Thought I was over watering which is why I'd been watering less. It seems to drain away quite quickly though.

I see a lot of that little grass looking weed - super invasive. Get rid of it and the roots in the soil.

Will do, and had been removing it every few months. The soil looks wet and sometimes has patches of a gluggy glue like layer. When I remove it I tend to lose a chunk of soil with it, that sounds like I'm doing it right?

How much dynamic lifter have you been placing on the surface? Too much could have damaged the roots.

A handful about every 4 months over the past year.

Looks like something under the soil line for sure, as Ken has suggested, check for grubs. If you do pull it out be sure to take pics!

Will do!

It looks like it has a slight chance of survival, if we can work out the issue!

Yay!!! Fingers, toes and branches crossed.

- Daniel

[MoGanic]

Hey All,

Thanks so much for your posts. I'll answer each below, little in-undated, haha. Just went out in the dark of the morning to see if I can catch any bugs in the act, noticed a bunch of web like strands around the dead side, then spotted a bonsai sized spider. Image below, I assume he's on the trail of whatever could be destroying my branches, unless he's gone vegetarian and is the source of my woes?

Also would dynamic lifter bee a little too aggressive, would seasol be better?

Not sure, I've just been doing what my bonsai guy recommends. I used to use Seasol, then switched to fertiliser about 2 years back.

Being in Sydney, is it infested with curl grub?

Didn't know what this was ... a quick google search and found some pics. Never seen anything like this in my yard. They seem pretty big, would have noticed them I'd have thought ... unless I have a bonsai variant?

How long have you had the tree? Any changes to its environment? When was it last repotted?

Have had the tree nearly 5 years. It is 13 years old now. Two years ago I moved it from ground level to a custom build stand/shelf. Didn't get repotted last year, had been doing it anually but been slightly distracted with an 18 month old daughter. Is it worth repotting now as an emergency, or wait until after winter, if he makes it through?

Soil looks very soggy as well, is this usually the case? Wonder if over watering / poor drainage could be a contributor?

Has been the case for probably 6 months I think ... as just mentioned, been a little distracted. Thought I was over watering which is why I'd been watering less. It seems to drain away quite quickly though.

I see a lot of that little grass looking weed - super invasive. Get rid of it and the roots in the soil.

Will do, and had been removing it every few months. The soil looks wet and sometimes has patches of a gluggy glue like layer. When I remove it I tend to lose a chunk of soil with it, that sounds like I'm doing it right?

How much dynamic lifter have you been placing on the surface? Too much could have damaged the roots.

A handful about every 4 months over the past year.

Looks like something under the soil line for sure, as Ken has suggested, check for grubs. If you do pull it out be sure to take pics!

Will do!

It looks like it has a slight chance of survival, if we can work out the issue!

Yay!!! Fingers, toes and branches crossed.

- Daniel

The gooey stuff is probably lichen forming - so the soil is more than likely holding too much water.

I've never worked with this species specifically, but a slip pot shouldn't hurt it. I'm hesitant to suggest this without seeing the root ball though.

With drainage, its not just how quickly the water gets through the mix, its also how much of it makes it out. As an example, if you water a plant and the same volume of water drains out the bottom, thats too much drainage. If only a small amount comes out then you need better drainage. Finding the balance is difficult.

Cheers,
Mo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JaseH]

I have found when a tree gets weak and lacking foilage due to whatever factors - its quite easy for then the roots to get into trouble from staying too moist, especially if you continue to water the same, the foliage and vigor just isn't there any more to draw the moisture out of the soil. I think you will also find that the star weed will have filled the pot with a mass of fine roots - putting further pressure on the trees roots.

I'm not that knowledgeable on that species regarding repotting and root work, but if it was mine I'd probably repot it. Trim any dead roots and remove all the star weed then put it into a free draining mix and water with seasol - but check the timing is ok with someone more knowledgeable.

[legoman_iac]

Hey Mo and Jase,

Thanks for your comments. You make it sound so logical and like common sense. Not having a trouble trees before so this is all new ground. Will try to measure the water input/output, good idea. Have also just emailed my bonsai guy with the pics asking about repotting.

Never heard the term "slip pot" ... will check it out out also. Thanks again!

- Daniel

[legoman_iac]

Hey all,

I've removed the weeds, no sign of any bugs or critters and just this morning measured the water poured vs drained, seems equal like it's all passing straight through.

- Daniel

[legoman_iac]

Update: took the plunge and just repotted "Harry" my picea as I've noticed he's dried out a lot and more branches have shed leaves this last week. Went to Bunnings and bought a bag of the bonsai mix. This looks a lot sandier than the soil that is usually used on this tree, however I couldn't get in touch with my regular bonsai guy.

Harry is looking in big trouble so hoping the repot brings him back from the brink. Not sure if it works like this, but noticed the side with needles had healthier looking roots, with lots of thin roots where as the right side was significantly less (rotted roots maybe?). Also don't know the difference from rotted to healthy looking roots, if anyone can tell from my pics?

Some images below of the repot. As always, keen for any pointers, tips, etc.

[Paul W]

I probably would have put it in an orchid squat pot about 250 mm and give it a drink of seasol for the next few weeks.
They are not a easy tree to keep and this looks like the way they go when they are on the way to heaven,good luck with it, a bit of TLC is needed, it might pull thru as Autumn is not too hot.

[legoman_iac]

Hey Paul,

It's it worth re-doing do you think? Or best now to leave him sit with TLC and seasol?

I'm hoping for the best but not expecting it.

- Daniel

[Paul W]

Hey Paul,

It's it worth re-doing do you think? Or best now to leave him sit with TLC and seasol?

I'm hoping for the best but not expecting it.

- Daniel

Hi Daniel
Probably best not to disturb it again as I think we can mess with trees too much,it is raining outside at the moment,nothing like a good nitrogen charged watering every now and then.
We are all praying for your tree mate.

[legoman_iac]

Haha, thanks Paul ... will update once anything happens either way.