Cutting Nebari?

[bonsaeen]

Guys,

So got this Maple tree a few weeks back and a couple of other trees with similar sort of problem. These roots/nebari look so ugly. What I can I do about this? Should I cut them?

I feel like day by day they are coming out of the ground or something or may be drying out but I am not sure. See the pictures and please suggest something.

nebari far.jpg

nebari close.jpg

[wal]

Are you joking mate? The root look is the bomb.... if anything i would be showing them off more
Looks cool i say

My usless nooby 2 cents

[alpineart]

Hi Bonsaeen , mate I wouldn't be cutting the roots until the tree is dormant { Winter } Personally i would simply split a 150mm plastic pot down , place it around the trunk sitting it on top of the soil , secure it together and to the pot with some tape or wire then back fill about 50mm deep . A few nicks here and there each side of the ugly roots and around the base at around the same level , this will stimulate some new root growth over the rest of the season . Come winter bare root and trim back the unwanted roots hopefully to the new stimulated roots . Slip potting it into a bigger deeper pot and burying the base deeper will also do the same job

If this doesn't succeed , in late Winter simply flat cut the base at the appropriate level for the best basal flair and re-pot it . Over next years growing season it will throw a whole new spread of roots .

Cheers Alpineart

[wal]

With a bit of a clean up it could look like its standing on fingers / legs as roots hmm

Soz for butting in

[KIRKY]

Yep they are pretty bad. There are a couple of things you can to.
1. If it were mine I would create and airlayer and bury it deeper. Take it out of the bonsai pot for a season or two. Look up how to airlayer on wiki here.
2. If you don't want to do that, remove anything crossing and all the back dead and rotten roots and bury it deeper. Again out of the bonsai pot. For a season or two.
Nebari should only be shown if it is good nebari and this is not and never will be by being exposed like this.
Small roots like this that are exposed are too weak to develope into good nebari. Usually they just dry up and rarely thicken.
if it were mine I would go option 1. For long term improvement

Wal, it would like like its growing on stumps. Not a good look! And would not improve the nebari at all
Cheers
Kirky

[wal]

Yep they are pretty bad. There are a couple of things you can to.
1. If it were mine I would create and airlayer and bury it deeper. Take it out of the bonsai pot for a season or two. Look up how to airlayer on wiki here.
2. If you don't want to do that, remove anything crossing and all the back dead and rotten roots and bury it deeper. Again out of the bonsai pot. For a season or two.
Nebari should only be shown if it is good nebari and this is not and never will be by being exposed like this.
Small roots like this that are exposed are too weak to develope into good nebari. Usually they just dry up and rarely thicken.
if it were mine I would go option 1. For long term improvement

Wal, it would like like its growing on stumps. Not a good look! And would not improve the nebari at all
Cheers
Kirky

I totally see your point now... i have much to learn but im having so much fun here

Love how welcoming all you guys are should be more forums around that dont just jump on the new guy for saying silly noob things

Makes for such a peacful place to hang out .

[KIRKY]

We all have to learn the sameway from the begining... You can never short cut good Nebari development, it takes time.
And it needs to be buried. Worked on during repots, root triming and burying again.
Cheers
Kirky

[Ryceman3]

I like the idea that Alpineart has for fixing this, not quite as drastic as Kirky's solution but I also see merit in going down that road if you are comfortable with putting a layer on... it will take time, gotta be patient! Kirky's is giving some good advice too re: exposing that nebari - it needs to be under soil to develop, right now it is too young to be exposed.

In other news, whatever you decide to do with the nebari, make sure you get rid of that starweed in the foreground of your shot. It will overgrow your pot and spread to others, and it is a pain in the backside to get rid of when it takes over.

Good luck with it!

[bonsaeen]

Thanks All for the replies.

Alpineart, Kirky so this is what I am thinking. I will do air layering and grow new roots, then chop it off and pot it as a separate tree. Then I will do what Alpineart said to the remaining trunk and hope it grows back. What do you think?

Wal - One thing I have noticed in the last few weeks that I have started doing Bonsai is that all people involved are very positive thinking people. Not sure if Bonsai it self has that effect on people but certainly looks like that.

[alpineart]

Hi Bonsaeen , I would use the existing foliage to produce the roots first then layer the top off next season , hopefully some shoots may appear from old nodes lower down the trunk . A pic of the whole tree would give a better indication of the direction to go . More foliage up top better root production below .

Cheers . Alpine

[KIRKY]

If once you have airlayered it and the roots have harden off, you want branching on the lower trunk, keep cutting the upper branches, shortening, leaf removal, feed heavily etc.... This will force lower buds to start pushing growth. No need to airlayer twice???. What is it you are trying to achieve here? You can only work in stages fix Nebari. Then fix branches. Then ramify. If you try to push all this at once you will stress the tree and can possibly loose it. You need top canopy to grow roots. You need roots to grow a lush canopy. I know this is a Trident Maple and it will take some abuse however, it is better to go step by step. Otherwise if/when things go wrong it is impossible to say what is at fault.
Cheers
Kirky

[bonsaeen]

Hi Bonsaeen , I would use the existing foliage to produce the roots first then layer the top off next season , hopefully some shoots may appear from old nodes lower down the trunk . A pic of the whole tree would give a better indication of the direction to go . More foliage up top better root production below .

Cheers . Alpine

Hey mate,

Here is a picture of the tree.

Maple large.jpg

[bonsaeen]

If once you have airlayered it and the roots have harden off, you want branching on the lower trunk, keep cutting the upper branches, shortening, leaf removal, feed heavily etc.... This will force lower buds to start pushing growth. No need to airlayer twice???. What is it you are trying to achieve here? You can only work in stages fix Nebari. Then fix branches. Then ramify. If you try to push all this at once you will stress the tree and can possibly loose it. You need top canopy to grow roots. You need roots to grow a lush canopy. I know this is a Trident Maple and it will take some abuse however, it is better to go step by step. Otherwise if/when things go wrong it is impossible to say what is at fault.
Cheers
Kirky

Thanks Kirky. I will focus on airlayering for now. How long do these new roots take to grow? One season ?
Also can I airlayer now or should it only be done in spring?

[alpineart]

Hi Bonsaeen , mate the pic sheds new light to the direction I would take . It appears to be a root over rock or root on rock very untidy but a different approach . You could layer it off above the first branch however it doesn't have much going for it . Personally I would simple remove the top above the first branch by cutting at the same angle as the first branch and trim the new leader by 50% , slip pot it into a larger container and let it grow on for this season .

In late winter I would remove it from the rock and trim ,cut the roots to better re-position the base on the rock or re-attach to another rock that fits the base . Tie or strap it securely around the roots and bury it into a deeper pot . Meanwhile if it shoots/backbuds lower down the main trunk think about layering that off giving you a layer with good movement and a base with hopefully lower branches and a better fitting root mass over the rock .

Good luck with which ever direction you take .

Cheers Alpineart

[bonsaeen]

So does this look right? Also the direction of the cut I have shown is correct or not?

Maple large.jpg

One more question, can this be done now in summer or do it wait? Thanks