Diseased JBP

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

Mr Treeman,
"You must" ...sounds more like self dictatorship?
"You could"...imparts wisdom as suggestiveness without bias.
"You should"...not think one's advice is any more valid, than anyone else who is willing to offer theirs.

Keeping this post somewhat on topic -
If RayM's earlier statement to "water each day" (which you feel as being one way to kill this tree) was re-worded as
"You must..water each day" Would his advice then be more viable, or any less subjective ?
Regards Keep Calm.

[treeman]

Mr Treeman,
"You must" ...sounds more like self dictatorship?
"You could"...imparts wisdom as suggestiveness without bias.
"You should"...not think one's advice is any more valid, than anyone else who is willing to offer theirs.

Keeping this post somewhat on topic -
If RayM's earlier statement to "water each day" (which you feel as being one way to kill this tree) was re-worded as
"You must..water each day" Would his advice then be more viable, or any less subjective ?
Regards Keep Calm.

Self dictatorship? Is that when you command yourself to do stuff?
To say ''water each day'' is a directive. It would be no more viable regardless of what you added. would, should, could, must.
But really, I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm rapidly losing interest. Just forget I said anything.

[baldtwitlion]

So should we water every day or not


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[Keep Calm and Ramify]

"

Ray M"]

If we threw out every sick tree, what would we learn? It doesn't matter if the tree will ever become a Bonsai, learn from the experience.

Well one way to learn how to quickly kill the tree - if not dead now - is the advice to ''water each day''

So should we water every day or not


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Baldtwitlion,
Yes..If you want to "quickly kill this tree".... You Must!

[treeman]

So should we water every day or not


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A good question which deserves to be answered.

The shortest possible way answer is...

Most trees..... yes, this time of year. (call every day ''5'' and twice per day ''6'' ''4'' every second day, ''3'' every third day etc)

Small tree in a big pot - less water - 3-4
newly repotted tree - less water -2 -3
large tree in a small pot - more water - 5 -6
tree which is way over due for repot and in decline - 4 - 5
most deciduous - 5
some water lovers eg quince 5 - 6
small trees shohin or mame - 5 or 6
Pines in general 5 or less
Junipers - 5 - or less
trees which are not perfectly healthy but not too bad 4 - 5
trees which are obviously sick due to leaf or root loss/rot etc. no water until top couple of cm are dry. could be 1 could be 4? should be attended to asap.
trees which have been accidentally over fertilized - 6 -two days in a row then 3 or 4 for a while.
trees which are in a very coarse mix - 5 -6
trees which are in a very fine mix - 4 -5
Very rarely you might have to water some trees 3 or 4 or 5 times per day (40 degrees with 10% humidity)

That should give you some idea?

[Pearcy001]

So should we water every day or not


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A good question which deserves to be answered.

The shortest possible way answer is...

Most trees..... yes, this time of year. (call every day ''5'' and twice per day ''6'' ''4'' every second day, ''3'' every third day etc)

Small tree in a big pot - less water - 3-4
newly repotted tree - less water -2 -3
large tree in a small pot - more water - 5 -6
tree which is way over due for repot and in decline - 4 - 5
most deciduous - 5
some water lovers eg quince 5 - 6
small trees shohin or mame - 5 or 6
Pines in general 5 or less
Junipers - 5 - or less
trees which are not perfectly healthy but not too bad 4 - 5
trees which are obviously sick due to leaf or root loss/rot etc. no water until top couple of cm are dry. could be 1 could be 4? should be attended to asap.
trees which have been accidentally over fertilized - 6 -two days in a row then 3 or 4 for a while.
trees which are in a very coarse mix - 5 -6
trees which are in a very fine mix - 4 -5
Very rarely you might have to water some trees 3 or 4 or 5 times per day (40 degrees with 10% humidity)

That should give you some idea?

Great explanation Treeman.

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[SueBee]

Thank you Treeman- that is very helpful and have added it to my 'forest' of cutting on my computer.

[tgward]

good drainage would most likely be the key to prevent over watering

[Beano]

Haha! Bin it! It’s dead. Especially if the only green left is at the base.

[Dean]

Haha! Bin it! It’s dead. Especially if the only green left is at the base.

It's pine adelgid,listen to Shibui.

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[Beano]

Dead

[Firecat]

So should we water every day or not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A good question which deserves to be answered.

The shortest possible way answer is...

Most trees..... yes, this time of year. (call every day ''5'' and twice per day ''6'' ''4'' every second day, ''3'' every third day etc)

Small tree in a big pot - less water - 3-4
newly repotted tree - less water -2 -3
large tree in a small pot - more water - 5 -6
tree which is way over due for repot and in decline - 4 - 5
most deciduous - 5
some water lovers eg quince 5 - 6
small trees shohin or mame - 5 or 6
Pines in general 5 or less
Junipers - 5 - or less
trees which are not perfectly healthy but not too bad 4 - 5
trees which are obviously sick due to leaf or root loss/rot etc. no water until top couple of cm are dry. could be 1 could be 4? should be attended to asap.
trees which have been accidentally over fertilized - 6 -two days in a row then 3 or 4 for a while.
trees which are in a very coarse mix - 5 -6
trees which are in a very fine mix - 4 -5
Very rarely you might have to water some trees 3 or 4 or 5 times per day (40 degrees with 10% humidity)

That should give you some idea?

Re pines and I'm loathed to post much but in Treemans defense I'm within his parameters. An example of kill a pine with too much watering I can give an example here.
Tree MUGO ..10 year nursery pot 8"..
Cleaned up 2 years ago(dead needles,branch's and all the stuff you do.
Water all the time as the crust dries and nothing happens for a year..no candles..zip.
Re pot into a 300x250X100 pot..do all the stuff and water the thing like it's a drought...Nothing happens.
Bite the bullet a rip it out of the big pot.
Go extreme and do a root prune, strip out needles and a bit of styling.
Get way layed with other things and it dries out on the bench.
Come back to a loss I'm thinking and pot it into a round 125x20mm inward lipped pot.
Raise root ball above lip and mound up soil.
Add a bit of moss to cover nabari and fertilize and water.
Moss looks bright and greeny and wait.
Back buds form in a month.
Candles on 25 tips.
All trimmed out and continual back budding still on the move.

Now I was killing the 'pine' with water.
The neglect of letting it dry out to the stage of the needles shriveling up and falling off, keeping moist/watering on the bench saved my Mugo.
(2 days actually as I was called into work for an overnight job)
A lesson was learned without research but with gathering a few tidd bits from here along the way.
"Water kills Pines and that's a fact"
Will post a pic soon..pretty sure I have a post about my Mugo's somewhere about.
Steve.

[Matthew]

Steve I may have thought that too but after seeing a fantastic collection of a very large landscapes put together by a famous vietmanese artist consisting of shimpaku junipers and Japanese black pines . These were under heavy shade cloth for months on end with moss and accent plants covering the rocks etc . Pieces were kept almost constantly moist yet these were very healthy and old specimans. Goes against all I was taught .............

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

So should we water every day or not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A good question which deserves to be answered.

The shortest possible way answer is...

Most trees..... yes, this time of year. (call every day ''5'' and twice per day ''6'' ''4'' every second day, ''3'' every third day etc)

Small tree in a big pot - less water - 3-4
newly repotted tree - less water -2 -3
large tree in a small pot - more water - 5 -6
tree which is way over due for repot and in decline - 4 - 5
most deciduous - 5
some water lovers eg quince 5 - 6
small trees shohin or mame - 5 or 6
Pines in general 5 or less
Junipers - 5 - or less
trees which are not perfectly healthy but not too bad 4 - 5
trees which are obviously sick due to leaf or root loss/rot etc. no water until top couple of cm are dry. could be 1 could be 4? should be attended to asap.
trees which have been accidentally over fertilized - 6 -two days in a row then 3 or 4 for a while.
trees which are in a very coarse mix - 5 -6
trees which are in a very fine mix - 4 -5
Very rarely you might have to water some trees 3 or 4 or 5 times per day (40 degrees with 10% humidity)

That should give you some idea?

Well I've printed & laminated my copy just in time.
I have a newly re-potted tree (2-3), its a water loving quince (5-6), a small one in a big pot (3-4), which is planted in a coarse mix (5-6). It's not too healthy, but not too bad (4-5) because I may have over fertilised it accidently (6).
So if I carry the 1, the hitchhikers guide to watering must then = 42?

[kez]

I don’t know why you 2 are arguing,

I may disagree with some of Mike’s ideas on design, but I listen when he advises on how to grow and maintain trees,

Why?

Because he has one of the best collections of anybody on this forum, and they largely (possibly totally, I don’t know) his work, and some have been in training for a very long time.

I can’t say the same for kcar, as you haven’t posted much of your work, but from the early stuff you have posted you also seem to know what you are doing, maybe both of you could collaborate to contribute positively with your combined knowledge?

Or maybe as I see that mike seems to have dropped the quarrel perhaps you could as well?

It’s crap that one of the most active threads of recent times on here is largely so due to bickering