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Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 7th, 2018, 3:27 pm
by Mitch_28
Thanks Mel [THUMBS UP SIGN]

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Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 6:58 pm
by Mitch_28
melbrackstone wrote:Check out Ryan's structural wiring techniques to get some hints. Practice, practice, practice.... it's really the only way to get comfortable with it. Then learning how best to use raffia or inner tubes is another

https://live.bonsaimirai.com/

I'm in a rush, but think Harry has some raffia articles.

http://bonsai4me.com/Articles.html
Hey Mel are you a subscriber of Mirai to watch this video from Ryan?

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Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 9th, 2018, 8:07 pm
by melbrackstone
I am, Mitch, but I thought that one was a free one?

He may have changed it though. :( If so, I'm sorry

Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 10th, 2018, 10:40 am
by KIRKY
Missed this post. I snapped two of these in as many days when I first started. I was told that they were easy to bend and you could just about tied them in a knot, without them snapping! I found this information total BS like I said managed to snap two! Years later I found by doing the following I had no problem.
Trick, I did mine in June, don’t water the tree at all for a good two weeks before starting. This makes the whole tree softer to work with.
Wrap a good layer of inter tube around the whole trunk, then support or run along side the straight tree another wire beside the trunk. Then wrap the wire to the tree with another layer of inter tube. When wrapping the inner tube it must over lap over then last wrap by half, if that makes sense. Don’t wrap it side by side up the tree. Thee is no support doing it side by side once you start to bend. Once this is done you will have one layer inter tube, wire running the length of the tree, and another layer of inter tube holding wire in place. Then I wire the tree with normally 45 degree angle for bending etc... The wire size will depend on the size of tree you are looking to bend. Both the straight support wire and the wire you are using to bend tree should be the same thickness. Then slowly start your bends be careful not to bend too close to the bottom of the tree as you will find all these trees are unsually grafted. If bending too close to the graft it will snap!
Obviously the thinner the truck the easier it will bend with tighter bends. If thicker take it as far as you think safe, leave it for a week again still not watering and then bend again further. After the second bending water Seasol n Powerfeed together. Not these trees take a while to set. Also try this site for better understanding of above. Even though it is done with raffia it is the same principle.
http://bonsaibpsbonsaiblog-bonsai.blogs ... -bend.html
Hope above make sense.
Cheers
Kirky

Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 11th, 2018, 10:51 pm
by MJL
While I have not tried this myself, I can vouch for Mel’s comment about letting this type of tree dry for a couple of weeks. I was at the Yarra Valley Bonsai Society earlier this evening and that exact point was made re: pines and it will make a huge difference to its pliability - making bends way easier.


Bonsai teaches me patience.

Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 11:51 am
by Mitch_28
No worries Mel. Looks to me like there havd been a few changes on his website since I last visited. The tiers look to have gone, replaced with just to subscription options. Not sure how much the free content has changed. Do you think it is worth the money? I have considered it in the past but never gone through with it.

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Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 12:03 pm
by Beano
Edited out - misread post, my reply irrelevant. Sorry.

Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 12:04 pm
by Mitch_28
KIRKY wrote:Missed this post. I snapped two of these in as many days when I first started. I was told that they were easy to bend and you could just about tied them in a knot, without them snapping! I found this information total BS like I said managed to snap two! Years later I found by doing the following I had no problem.
Trick, I did mine in June, don’t water the tree at all for a good two weeks before starting. This makes the whole tree softer to work with.
Wrap a good layer of inter tube around the whole trunk, then support or run along side the straight tree another wire beside the trunk. Then wrap the wire to the tree with another layer of inter tube. When wrapping the inner tube it must over lap over then last wrap by half, if that makes sense. Don’t wrap it side by side up the tree. Thee is no support doing it side by side once you start to bend. Once this is done you will have one layer inter tube, wire running the length of the tree, and another layer of inter tube holding wire in place. Then I wire the tree with normally 45 degree angle for bending etc... The wire size will depend on the size of tree you are looking to bend. Both the straight support wire and the wire you are using to bend tree should be the same thickness. Then slowly start your bends be careful not to bend too close to the bottom of the tree as you will find all these trees are unsually grafted. If bending too close to the graft it will snap!
Obviously the thinner the truck the easier it will bend with tighter bends. If thicker take it as far as you think safe, leave it for a week again still not watering and then bend again further. After the second bending water Seasol n Powerfeed together. Not these trees take a while to set. Also try this site for better understanding of above. Even though it is done with raffia it is the same principle.
http://bonsaibpsbonsaiblog-bonsai.blogs ... -bend.html
Hope above make sense.
Cheers
Kirky
Kirky,
Thanks heaps for this information. I just took delivery of another two smaller ones from a nursery in the Dandenongs somewhere. They are grafted as noted, one has a little reverse taper just above the graft that will hopefully grow out in time, maybe in the ground in a colander might help instead of left in the pot. The other I will wait and follow your info and hopefully have better luck, besides it will give me time to just look at the tree and decide what direction will be best for it. Looking back at my first attempt, although I didn't think I put much pressure on it, coupled with the fact I don't think I wrapped and supported it enough, I hadn't let it dry out either. It also snapped close enough to the graft! Lesson learnt! Watching George Omi, I think his name was, on YouTube, and he just about bends his 90 deg from the base. Crazy tight bends!
Anyway thanks for taking the time to read and comment. Definitely all helps beginners like myself.
Cheers Mitchell


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Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 1:00 pm
by Mitch_28
Beano wrote:Edited out - misread post, my reply irrelevant. Sorry.
Nah Beano, Mirai bonsai mate

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Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 1:02 pm
by Mitch_28
MJL wrote:While I have not tried this myself, I can vouch for Mel’s comment about letting this type of tree dry for a couple of weeks. I was at the Yarra Valley Bonsai Society earlier this evening and that exact point was made re: pines and it will make a huge difference to its pliability - making bends way easier.


Bonsai teaches me patience.
Thanks mate

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Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 1:20 pm
by melbrackstone
Mitch, personally I find it's worth the money, especially since there isn't anyone around here that's reliably offering this sort of info. I don't know exactly what the differences are between the options now, but I paid up again recently for another year. Au dollar is not good, but ahh, what the hell.... I was spending this much for 4 one day workshops a couple of years ago, but there aren't these workshops available to me any more... and with a subscription you can go back and view the vids over and over....

Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 5:51 pm
by KIRKY
Hi Mitchell,
This tree in Australia is classified as exotic. Most if not all the nursery exotic trees we get here of this type are grafted. Overseas they are not exotics so I doubt they would be grafted. That would make bending them down low less of a hazard.
Grafts snap never bend.
Cheers
Kirky

Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 12th, 2018, 6:36 pm
by Grant Bowie
Bending cedars drastically is notoriously difficult.

Here is a thread where I bent a tall pine fairly severely. viewtopic.php?f=131&t=3783&hilit=Jack+Pine&start=60

Grant

Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 13th, 2018, 5:23 am
by Mitch_28
Hi Grant thanks for posting, do mind pasting the link again? I can't seem to open it.
Trust me to take interest in a difficult species haha

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Re: Heavy bending

PostPosted: December 13th, 2018, 6:02 am
by Ryceman3
Hi Mitch_28,
Grant’s link works... not sure why you can’t open it. :lost:
Jiro has posted on it so it is in the latest threads atm under heading “Pine for Workshop”.