Acer Palmatum Heavy Pruning

[HarleyD]

Hi Everyone!

I have a young maple that I'm developing at the moment and it's looking very healthy! The issue I have is that for the next step in it's development I need to essentially cut the tree in half as it has a very long and dominant shoot that branches off to the side...


Here's the site of the cut I want to make:


So the question I have is, how can I achieve this without posing a risk to the health of the tree? I've heard that Japanese maples are easy to over-prune.

Thanks in advance,
-Harley

[tgward]

could air later the top area -- also have a good opportunity to create a tall elegant informal upright tree by using some thick wire and put much movement in that main trunk (as long as you wire loosely so doesn't mark the trunk)- then wait for a couple of years before branch selection

[KIRKY]

If your going to air layer I’d do it where the three branches just start. Would Mike a nice three tree group.
If your planning on cutting it back where you have marked it best to do it in Autumn after the leaves have just dropped.
Cheers
Kirky

[TimS]

I would say that if you are layering, when I have done JM layers below multiple branches the roots have always been lopsided and generally inferior compared to doing single sections

I layered a multi branch section off a lace leaf, red leaf cultivar like yours last year and the roots were very average indeed. I have experienced the same thing on straight species, Arakawa and Shishigashira cultivars layering below where multiple branches emanated

[shibui]

Not sure where the 'easy to overprune maples' comes from. I have not found that.

First things first. Your location will have some bearing on when and how to do almost anything with plants. Australia is a big place with lots of very different climate and for that matter you may even be anywhere in the whole world these days. Add a location to your profile so it shows up every time you post and you won't have to remember to mention it each time.

There should be no problem just chopping that long trunk where you have marked. The tree is healthy and growing well so now is a good time to do so and new shoots should grow from the nodes below in just a few weeks.

The real question is whether chopping now is the best way to achieve what you want. Do you have any plans in mind? Size of the bonsai, shape of the bonsai, thickness of trunk, how long are you prepared to wait to achieve a bonsai, really nice thick trunk tree with good trunk taper or just a tall, skinny mallsai?
Whether it is better to chop now or wait for a couple of years or to chop the other trunk and leave this one could depend on what you want to achieve with this tree.

[HarleyD]

I'm quite interested in the air layer idea. Thanks for the suggestion The trunk can't be more than 5mm thick at the moment though. Are you able to air layer material that size? Or will I have to wait a couple more years?

Cheers,
-Harley

[HarleyD]

Not sure where the 'easy to overprune maples' comes from. I have not found that.

First things first. Your location will have some bearing on when and how to do almost anything with plants. Australia is a big place with lots of very different climate and for that matter you may even be anywhere in the whole world these days. Add a location to your profile so it shows up every time you post and you won't have to remember to mention it each time.

There should be no problem just chopping that long trunk where you have marked. The tree is healthy and growing well so now is a good time to do so and new shoots should grow from the nodes below in just a few weeks.

The real question is whether chopping now is the best way to achieve what you want. Do you have any plans in mind? Size of the bonsai, shape of the bonsai, thickness of trunk, how long are you prepared to wait to achieve a bonsai, really nice thick trunk tree with good trunk taper or just a tall, skinny mallsai?
Whether it is better to chop now or wait for a couple of years or to chop the other trunk and leave this one could depend on what you want to achieve with this tree.

Oops, I thought I already had my location set to be honest.

I am hoping for a thick trunked bonsai out of this eventually, and I'm willing to take the time to do it the right way. My intention is to use the 'cut and grow' method I saw in Peter Adams' book on maple bonsai. I'll repot this tree on an angle in a year or two and try to get a nice zig-zag shape.

[TimS]

I'm quite interested in the air layer idea. Thanks for the suggestion The trunk can't be more than 5mm thick at the moment though. Are you able to air layer material that size? Or will I have to wait a couple more years?

Cheers,
-Harley

That is about the absolute minimum I would try, and only if I was desperate to if it were a rare cultivar.

As a general rule I have found, pencil thick and upwards size wise and it seems to be more successful the larger it is. The largest I have tried was about wrist size

[treeman]

Hi Everyone!

I have a young maple that I'm developing at the moment and it's looking very healthy! The issue I have is that for the next step in it's development I need to essentially cut the tree in half as it has a very long and dominant shoot that branches off to the side...


Here's the site of the cut I want to make:


So the question I have is, how can I achieve this without posing a risk to the health of the tree? I've heard that Japanese maples are easy to over-prune.

Thanks in advance,
-Harley

You can cut it where you want but not now. Japanese maples that are not root pruned need to be cut just as the last few leaves are falling or they bleed very badly.

[shibui]

I am hoping for a thick trunked bonsai out of this eventually, and I'm willing to take the time to do it the right way. My intention is to use the 'cut and grow' method I saw in Peter Adams' book on maple bonsai. I'll repot this tree on an angle in a year or two and try to get a nice zig-zag shape.

For a thick trunk bonsai I would forget about pruning at this stage. I'd be waiting for the trunk to get to about 1/2 of desired thickness before the first chop. To get there quicker it should be in a larger pot or in the garden if possible. Pruning now will slow growth when you remove leaves and the tree needs to redirect resources to new shoots. I have not read Peter Adams on maples. Did he recommend pruning this early?

You can cut it where you want but not now. Japanese maples that are not root pruned need to be cut just as the last few leaves are falling or they bleed very badly.

I know this happens when pruning JM in late winter and early spring but I do not see bleeding when pruning after the leaves have hardened up later in spring.

[HarleyD]

I am hoping for a thick trunked bonsai out of this eventually, and I'm willing to take the time to do it the right way. My intention is to use the 'cut and grow' method I saw in Peter Adams' book on maple bonsai. I'll repot this tree on an angle in a year or two and try to get a nice zig-zag shape.

For a thick trunk bonsai I would forget about pruning at this stage. I'd be waiting for the trunk to get to about 1/2 of desired thickness before the first chop. To get there quicker it should be in a larger pot or in the garden if possible. Pruning now will slow growth when you remove leaves and the tree needs to redirect resources to new shoots. I have not read Peter Adams on maples. Did he recommend pruning this early?

You can cut it where you want but not now. Japanese maples that are not root pruned need to be cut just as the last few leaves are falling or they bleed very badly.

I know this happens when pruning JM in late winter and early spring but I do not see bleeding when pruning after the leaves have hardened up later in spring.

No, Adams didn't recommend pruning this early. It was just his shaping technique that I had in mind.

I was more asking about pruning because of the way this tree has grown. I was worried that the leader off to the side had become too dominant and that if I let it continue that way it would be more dangerous to the health of the tree to remove it later on.

Do you think it would still be fine to make the chop if the tree continues growing and ends up with 80% of its foliage potentially being removed provided I chop it at the right time of year? (Come to think of it, the right time of year would mean that the tree had no foliage, but you know what I mean)

[shibui]

The younger the tree the more responsive to pruning generally. I grow a lot of trident and Japanese maples here and let most get to more than 1m tall, often to 2 m tall before chopping back to somewhere around 15-30cm. Usually trunk chop in conjunction with hard root pruning in winter. If the roots are cut bleeding is not an issue for maples so that can be done any time from mid winter through to bud burst in early spring.

Tim S picked up that your tree is a lace leaf variety. Do you know the variety name? Is it grafted? The weeping dissectum type JM have a reputation for being less hardy than many of the upright varieties so you may have to proceed with more caution than I have recommended above if that's what you have.

I was more asking about pruning because of the way this tree has grown. I was worried that the leader off to the side had become too dominant and that if I let it continue that way it would be more dangerous to the health of the tree to remove it later on.

From here i think that stronger trunk will be your best bet for the main trunk of any bonsai. The smaller one is far too straight for my liking but if you are happy with straight and vertical go for it.

The bend where the stronger one is growing would make a nice first bend in any future trunk (remove the smaller one completely at some stage). After the initial trunk chop and regrow further chops will give the trunk bends Adams technique aims for. The initial grow period can be longer to get the trunk thicker. Successive grow periods get shorter and shorter as the tree nears completion.

Although it sound simple, getting a good result may be more challenging and require a few attempts to get the sequence and timing correct + not every individual maple will always respond as planned so you do need to allow for some less than ideal responses.

[HarleyD]

Tim S picked up that your tree is a lace leaf variety. Do you know the variety name? Is it grafted? The weeping dissectum type JM have a reputation for being less hardy than many of the upright varieties so you may have to proceed with more caution than I have recommended above if that's what you have.

This particular JM is grown from seed so it is not a true member of any particular cultivar. I'm not even sure what cultivar the seed may have come from. It seems to be particularly vigorous compared to many of my other maples (even green leaf varieties) and so far the foliage is very nice and small. Hopefully it retains these features as it matures.

Thanks for all the advice. I guess I'll let it grow for a few more years before pruning it at all. After that I might try to air layer that branch as some others have suggested

[shibui]

This particular JM is grown from seed so it is not a true member of any particular cultivar. I'm not even sure what cultivar the seed may have come from. It seems to be particularly vigorous compared to many of my other maples (even green leaf varieties) and so far the foliage is very nice and small. Hopefully it retains these features as it matures.

I did not think it looked as if there was a graft but just needed to check, especially as the leaves look a lot like the weeping dissectum types.
I also grow a lot of JM from seed and I'm always looking out for those special looking ones. Finely dissected red leaf types are particularly interesting and when they grow well that's even better because many seedlings from the weeping dissectum types appear to be weak.
Every seedling is a new and unique cultivar. Every one of the well known, named types started just like this and you have every right to give yours a new name. Grow it to maturity to see what its true characteristics are then decide whether this one merits adding to the list of superior JM cultivars.

In the meantime it will be interesting to see how amenable it is to bonsai - not all JM types are great for bonsai. Some have long internodes or coarse growth habit.
Min size for layering has already been discussed. If you have experience layering could work with such a thin piece but chances are higher that something will go wrong at this size. I'd certainly let it grow this season and layer when the branch is thicker for more surety.