Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Share your success stories about defoliation, bare rooting and anything else relating to maintaining healthy bonsai.

Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby bodhidharma » July 19th, 2013, 6:11 pm

Olivecrazy wrote:Whats this tree i noticed it in the back ground

Its a phoenix grafted (Tanuki) Tamarisk.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby Kevin Nel » June 27th, 2014, 3:16 am

Hi guys

I just came across this post. VERY NICE! I moved house and also moved from a Subtropical to VERY COLD climate. SO, Im focusing on starting up anew... :palm:

I have these English elms growing in the garden. Now that I see the post it gives me hope to use them as bonsai rather than garden trees lol. When is the best time to dig them out? Sept/Oct? My climate is cold, last year we had snow end of Oct to give you guys an idea.

Thanks
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby bodhidharma » June 27th, 2014, 7:06 am

Hi Kevin, july/august are best for English elms. They are a great tree to work with.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby Boics » June 27th, 2014, 8:02 am

Hello Bodhi.

Good to read over this post again.
I have had an EE for a number of years now that seems to lose all it's leaves prematurely.
It rarely has a 2nd flush later in the season as well (I recall one year only).

Leaves tend to dry out and simply fall off one by one...
The tree seems relatively healthy when it does come into leaf in spring year on year and the roots are at the moment running prolifically in a large container - any ideas what the issue may be?

This is the tree in question: viewtopic.php?f=104&t=13186&hilit=+want+more+roots#p138137
One of the fabulous things about growing bonsai is as you get old and decrepit your trees get old and beautiful
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby Kevin Nel » July 1st, 2014, 5:00 am

bodhidharma wrote:Hi Kevin, july/august are best for English elms. They are a great tree to work with.


Thanks man! Ill dig them as soon as I see the buds swell.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby bodhidharma » July 1st, 2014, 9:50 am

Boics wrote:Good to read over this post again.
I have had an EE for a number of years now that seems to lose all it's leaves prematurely.
It rarely has a 2nd flush later in the season as well (I recall one year only).


I have only ever had problems with E.E's when 1)..I dont repot them and 2)..when the roots dry out. They are a bit of a hard balance between full Sun and overheating the root system and i think your pot is to shallow for an E.E and that might be the problem.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby Stewart_Toowoomba » July 1st, 2014, 10:35 am

WOW !! :clap:

Thanks Bhodi for the great posting. As always it is a pleasure to see your work and build up some courage and inspiration.

Do you take the photos (and so wash your hands each time :palm: ) or do you have someone taking them for you?

cheers

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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby treeman » July 1st, 2014, 2:00 pm

If I may be so bold Bodi, I think it is a mistake to worry about ramification up top just yet.
For a really top tree it should be put in the ground and the leader should be allowed to grow away until it is about 40-50% the diameter of the cut. This will take at least 2 to 3 years. It should then be pruned to within 50mm of where it starts and the process repeated with each cut diameter about half the previous until you get down to 20mm. Only then should it be potted and the branches worked on. This way you will achieve perfect taper, reduce the scaring and thicken the nebari at the same time.
I belive many people rush to make branches without builing the proper foundation first.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby Mount Nasura » July 1st, 2014, 11:23 pm

Thanks for the great post. I know this thread is about the nebari but I can't help but notice the branch development too…. I have been investigating building branches and I see these branches in development and know that they will eventually grow to a size that suits the large trunk but my related questions are in general, is there a point where branches can exceed a fitting thickness to trunk ratio or does growth slow down as it reaches this balance? And even more general can kept trees reach a peak in their lifespan and appearance and from there digress and a decision has to be made to aggressively restyle the tree and basically start over again?
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby bodhidharma » July 2nd, 2014, 8:55 am

treeman wrote:If I may be so bold Bodi, I think it is a mistake to worry about ramification up top just yet.

Mount Nasura wrote:Thanks for the great post. I know this thread is about the nebari but I can't help but notice the branch development too…


Hi Folks. A fair question and i will answer as best, and as shortly, as i possibly can. The tree is obviously collected and certainly does not need any more size. Ground growing for this tree is not needed as an healthy E.E will put on mass in the pot. Now remember that i am a seller and, as such, need to sell to earn a living. I produce branching via wiring in order to have a believable tree (even with skinny branches) and i certainly understand branch ramification and leader growth. To produce a great Bonsai, and with the understanding that i am not selling it, i will wire the branches and leaders the same way but will cut back to the first secondary and the following year the next secondary etc all the while letting the branch grow for thickness. The same would apply to the leader. I do this so i can see how the tree is developing with this in mind. Are the branches in the right place, is the flow and harmony correct, what length will suit and so on. I follow the regime of growing and wiring for thickness and then cutting back. Same apply's for secondary and tertiary branching, cut back to two buds, let grow and do again. Now worrying about ramification is important to me for leaf cover because, if i dont have any, i cannot sell the tree so therefore i would be poor. This tree has been sold and the owner is doing a good job on development of this tree. For branch development on my own trees see my thread on my Coprosma or my old Ulmus procera. I hope that helps in my line of thinking and development of trees. I HAVE to earn a living albeit an modest living.
Stewart_Toowoomba wrote:Do you take the photos (and so wash your hands each time ) or do you have someone taking them for you?
Hi Stewart and yes i do :palm: work on the tree, wash my hands, take photo, work on tree and so on and so on.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby bodhidharma » July 2nd, 2014, 9:08 am

Mount Nasura wrote:I have been investigating building branches and I see these branches in development and know that they will eventually grow to a size that suits the large trunk but my related questions are in general, is there a point where branches can exceed a fitting thickness to trunk ratio or does growth slow down as it reaches this balance? And even more general can kept trees reach a peak in their lifespan and appearance and from there digress and a decision has to be made to aggressively restyle the tree and basically start over again?

Hi M.N and in answer to your question, i simply dont know. I havent been doing Bonsai long enough to deal with that process. Having said that, i read about Bonsai having to be rebuilt. I read an interesting article about exactly that and the Author summarized by saying that the trunk and branching should grow proportionately together but, as said, i have not been involved long enough to have this problem. I have had top branches on a tree grow to hard (if the tree is apically dominant) and i simply cut them off. Leader work and top branches will always be scaled back during the life of the tree. in my limited experience apex building will go on all the time and i am doing several at the moment.Lower branching though, seems to slow down as the tree gets older therefore keeping the scale correct but i certainly have no generational trees to work on so really dont know and i can only relate to what i have read and not experienced.
Last edited by bodhidharma on July 2nd, 2014, 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby Haydenmc » April 28th, 2015, 10:51 pm

:bump: How's this big guy travelling along?
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby Pearcy001 » April 28th, 2015, 11:49 pm

bodhidharma wrote:This tree has been sold and the owner is doing a good job on development of this tree.

In case you end up waiting around for an answer mate, I'm not too sure if he can tell you as he's sold it.

Cheers,
Pearcy.
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby kcpoole » April 29th, 2015, 9:21 am

Pearcy001 wrote:
bodhidharma wrote:This tree has been sold and the owner is doing a good job on development of this tree.

In case you end up waiting around for an answer mate, I'm not too sure if he can tell you as he's sold it.

Cheers,
Pearcy.

Awesome can you update us?
Photos?

Ken
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Re: Ulmus procera..building show winning Nebari

Postby bodhidharma » April 29th, 2015, 9:26 am

This tree was purchased by an Ausbonsai contributor and, as far as i know, he still has it. Maybe he will read this and give us some info.
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