Will E. tereticornis make a viable bonsai specimen?

[Jow]

Edward, it's worth noting that the Japanese use only a selection of their shrubs and trees. How many Japanese oaks do you see yet the whole of Hokkaido is covered in them. The same goes for certain species of Japanese hawthorn. They just don't use the species that don't perform well.
I think there are certainly eucs that do well such as redgums but I think we need to accept that certain species no matter how nice they are in the bush simply will never make good bonsai subjects.

That said there are still a lot of species to try and see if they will work. Experimentation is half the fun but you really need to accept that not everything is going to be worth long term time investment.

[Kevin]

Thank-you everyone for your opinions and advice.

It is very interesting reading your experiences and thoughts in regards to our Eucalypts as Bonsai.

I spent considerable time searching this site and the net prior to asking this question, there is surprisingly little information on the subject. Maybe i used the wrong Keywords?

Looking forward to reading further information either from your own experiences or from any links you may know of.

Thank-you in advance for your time.

Kevin

[Jow]

An old member flybri had some great posts on redgums. Worth searching out.

[Kevin]

Thank-you Jow,

PeterH and flybri were mentioned to me last week. Unfortunately i haven't had much free time to thoroughly pursue.
PeterH has a beautiful Angophora - BIG. I read a tid bit in relation to repotting that Angophora - no crane required on that occasion.
I have read through some of flybri's work, he was an interesting character and a uniqueness with some of his methodologies.
I am looking forward to reading more soon.

Thanks again Jow.

Kevin

[Rory]

for the euc bashers out there... there are over 700 species of Eucalyptus. Perhaps the non-believers may be generalizing just a bit?

[dennismc]

I am amazed at some of the things said out there on growing the gum trees (Angophora, Eucalyptus and Corymbia sp.) as bonsai!!

After nearly 30 years experimenting with this group I have developed some guidelines for training them. (Note the Angophora specimen in my identity pane it is about thirty years old as trained as a bonsai and has a circumference of about 30 cm at the base.)

They are relatively easy if you follow these guidelines:

1. Can be re-potted at any time but it is best done in Autumn
2. Can remove at least 50% of roots provided that the soil remains wet for 3 weeks after re potting
3. Normal watering for the rest of the year
4. Do not shorten new growth until it has matured somewhat. (new shoots tend to die back if pruned too soon)
5. Defoliation, regular shoot pruning and keeping in a smaller pot will over time reduce leaf size naturally
6. Always remove any vertical shoots as soon as they appear.

Hope this is of some help. Please email me if I can be of any further help.
Dennis Mc

[treeman]

After nearly 30 years experimenting with this group I have developed some guidelines for training them. (Note the Angophora specimen in my identity pane it is about thirty years old as trained as a bonsai and has a circumference of about 30 cm at the base.)

Dennis, can you show what you have achieved after 30 years with a Eucalyptus or Angophora?
Like I said, there might very well be some well grown examples out there but I have yet to see them. When I say well grown, I mean good gradual ramification (in relation to the tree size), a well proportioned and compact tree with good depth and of resonable size, interesting movement in the trunk, less than 1 metre tall.....that kind of thing...In other words, a bonsai..
I think the first thing to do when considering gums is to reject any large leaved species outright. Regardless of how much you like them. Angophora costata is one of my favorite natives, I have 8 planted in my garden but for bonsai they are just not well suited IMO.

[bodhidharma]

Dennis, can you show what you have achieved after 30 years with a Eucalyptus or Angophora?

I think he is saying the one he is pictured with (in his profile pic) Is a Costata.

[Rory]

Hi again Kevin,

I checked my seedlings of Eucs this morning and I do have a tereticornis in there. So like you, I will also experiment. Though the seedling was quite pot bound, so I hope it comes good after the repot I gave it.

[kcpoole]

Edward, it's worth noting that the Japanese use only a selection of their shrubs and trees. How many Japanese oaks do you see yet the whole of Hokkaido is covered in them. The same goes for certain species of Japanese hawthorn. They just don't use the species that don't perform well.
I think there are certainly eucs that do well such as redgums but I think we need to accept that certain species no matter how nice they are in the bush simply will never make good bonsai subjects.

That said there are still a lot of species to try and see if they will work. Experimentation is half the fun but you really need to accept that not everything is going to be worth long term time investment.

Perhaps the Japanese do not use every plant available because over the last 800 years or so they have worked out the best and rejected the others
that means that we still have about 750 years to go to catch up and work out which ones of ours are no good!

If we do not try then we will never know and the people that are dismissing any of our natives without trying have go their heads in the sand.

one of the classic examples is Tristaniopsis laurina ( water gum). The trees naturally have large leaves and to look at one you would never think to try them. Well thankfuly Ray Nesci did and as a result we now know they are such an excellent tree for bonsai.

we have many smaller leafed Eucs and relatives, to not try then out would be a crime:-)

As Joe said, experimentation if fun and thats how we learn
if you think that is a waste of time and or disagree, then I suggest you go elsewhere . We are here to learn after all

PS, Dennis has many excellent Euc and native Bonsai

Ken

[Bebbas]

G'day everone, I have a Eucalyptus that I want to put in its first Bonsai pot. Its certainly hot enough in Perth at the moment. Would I be better rearranging the roots from the standard nursery pot into a larger than needed bonsai pot and let it grow into it or should I cut some of the rootball off and put it into a smaller pot?

[treeman]

if you think that is a waste of time and or disagree, then I suggest you go elsewhere

If we are here to learn, I suggest you let people say what the hell they like.

[Kevin]

G'day everone, I have a Eucalyptus that I want to put in its first Bonsai pot. Its certainly hot enough in Perth at the moment. Would I be better rearranging the roots from the standard nursery pot into a larger than needed bonsai pot and let it grow into it or should I cut some of the rootball off and put it into a smaller pot?

G'Day Bebbas,
Good to hear from you.
It's 35 degrees right now under my pergola at home.
As for potting your Eucalyptus into the bonsai pot, someone with experience WILL chime in very shortly (i hope).
I was out yesterday collecting Eucalyptus seeds from my local indigenous remnant varieties. The capsules have been placed into a tin and baking in the sun at the moment - maybe plant up tonight or tomorrow.
I will start a thread on these seeds development for everyone else who is interested to learn from.
Maybe you can to, post photos and document history - we could really use people's experience for future learners like me.
Anyway, Good luck - Post a photo for everyone to see - WE'RE ALL STICKYBEAKS.
Kevin

[bodhidharma]

If we are here to learn, I suggest you let people say what the hell they like.

Not understanding you here Mike. In your profile you list your favourite Bonsai specie's as "Any" but are canning the people attempting Euc's? Not sure you are voicing your message with any clarity or are just wanting to give it to one of the Mod's

[Rory]

Mike, do not go anywhere, and do not take this thread personally. I would assume I speak for the many when I say we admire your experience and vast knowledge, which at times can be looked on as abrupt with your advice, but it is meant well and most users would see that and appreciate it immensely.

I have learnt a lot from you Mike over the years, as well from Ken, and as well from Bodhi. We all play for the same team here, and have the patience and willingness to learn, which ironically is what makes all 3 of you exceptional at bonsai.

Bodhi, Mike was merely stating a point that in his opinion Eucalyptus in general are not great specimens for bonsai material, but he did state that he is willing to be shown examples of great material. It could also be seen as a challenge, as I am more than happy to accept his friendly glove smack, and will come back here to this thread in about 10 years time to show him my attempts - good or bad. I'm sure we can all appreciate that this is his opinion, as he also stated that the large leaf varieties would obviously be difficult, as I have also found this myself, but I am still trying them regardless and persisting. Listing his favourite species as 'any' is simply Mike saying that he enjoys critiquing all specimens, whether that is accepted as helpful or not, it makes us think and question our efforts - if anything, to produce better material. After all, it is better to experiment if you have the enthusiasm and your own goals at heart I agree, but it doesn't hurt to listen to those that critique a species with an open mind. The older I get and with the more trees I maintain I actually do prefer to start with material that doesn't require endless pinching and efforts to reduce the leaf size beyond that which a species with naturally smaller leaves would require. So, again, take it all with a grain of salt. Eucalyptus is probably my 2nd favourite tree, so I am certainly far from Mikes opinion on this one, but I do respect his opinion.

In regards to Ken's comment of going elsewhere, I certainly didn't see that as a direct leave request. Ken was only stating that if we are dismissing or not bothering with material or the 'idea of not trying everything' with a closed mind then it isn't in the spirit of bonsai, which I would agree with. Yes, as both Mike and Ken state, we are all here to learn, and we all should seek the critique and the splendour of all species and acknowledge everyones thoughts.

I do see this thread in similar ways to a hibiscus. I still am not a fan of them as bonsai, but I admire Kens attempts and didn't think they would look as good as he has made them. Though I still wouldn't grow them as bonsai myself for my own personal reasons, but what I love and understand what Ken is saying is that it brings pleasure to those that do grow them, and I was impressed with how much he made them look worthy of bonsai material.
Perhaps in time Mike may turn more to the dark side over time, as more enthusiasts develop more of a flair for Eucalyptus, but I do understand and respect his distate for them, in the same way I have distastes for other species.