Leptospermum scoparium advice if you grow them please

[Rory]

So I have gone against my better judgement and tried my hand again at this amazingly beautiful species.
The common pale pink single coloured flowers of scoparium is nice, but I have finally acquired 2 specimens of the particularly beautiful dark crimson thick double petal flowering variety.

Normally I would read threads and/or the wiki, but scoparium is so different to any lepto's I have tried my hand at that I have not had success with these previously.

Please only reply if you have scoparium and still have them alive.
My question is only to members on here who have managed to keep them alive and thriving:

My questions are, please if you know....
When is the best season to cut back roots and what percentage is it safe to cut off?
When is the best season to cut back the branches?
When is the best season to cut back hard, and if so what approx. percentage of foliage should I leave on the tree?

I don't believe the roots will present much of a problem as I think I have purchased them just as they were potted up into 8 inch pots very recently and so they are not too big. The trunks are only about 1cm across.

I am very keen to simply grow them in a very small growing pot and keep them on the smaller side so as not to require serious root reduction. I am in no way wanting to rush the root reduction or cut back, as this has been the death of them in the past.

[GavinG]

CJ from Perth posted a number of them quite a few years ago, and his advice was comprehensive. They appear to be particularly sensitive. Good luck.

Gavin

[Boics]

Yep CJ is the scoparium master from what I can gather.
He also has a blog on this site as well. Search or even pm maybe?

[treeman]

All I can add is that I had a really nice one once and after I let it dry out it never recovered.

[thoglette]

This post points to CJ's New Zealand Tea Trees blog. Scroll back to 2012

I've lost a few beauties over the years, invariably after repotting. I always used what I would now consider a "heavy" mix which stayed quite wet and I never lost one in summer.

I have since been advised by a nurseryman to repot with the roots under water. YMMV. I've not attempted any in the last decade, mostly due to not stumbling across any decent stock.

[Rory]

CJ from Perth posted a number of them quite a few years ago, and his advice was comprehensive. They appear to be particularly sensitive. Good luck.

Gavin

I'm not being funny, I'm serious, but can you point me in the direction of the comprehensive advice. I just can't really find anything other than the quote below.

This post points to CJ's New Zealand Tea Trees blog. Scroll back to 2012

I have looked at the entire blog, and there isn't anything other than pics and small descriptions of the trees. There really isn't anything detailing the maintenance of the trees.


However, I managed to find a thread using the search option, where CJ eventually mentions a bit of detail about scoparium....
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14720&hilit=leptospermum+scoparium

An ex-nursery owner who came to our annual exhibition regularly, told me that she generally lost 50% of her Leptospermum Scoparium stock. So if u can keep your Leptospermum Scoparium alive even in an ordinary pot, is an achievement. To make a Leptospermum Scoparium into a bonsai is another matter altogether. The most difficult part is getting them safely into the bonsai pot. In my early days of experimentation more than 10 years ago, I managed to successfully cut off up about 70% of the soil and roots in one go. However I don't do it now as I began to understand this specie more. I don't advise u to do it. Of course u r free to do it if u want to try. The safer approach is to get the root mass down in stages of 20 - 40 %. Resting the tree well in between, for it to regain its' health and vigor. Of course the tree must be in tip top condition - healthy and growing vigorously - before any attempt to cut the root mass. When u r cutting off the root, hold onto the soil. Do not hold onto the trunk or branches. Reason is to avoid dislocating the root from the soil. The roots of the NZ tea tree is extremely sensitive and any slight disturbance can lead to sudden death. The best time is when the weather continously cools down for a few months. In Perth it is around mid-Autumn. Reason is they love the cool weather which is less taxing on them. The longer time it has to recover before it faces the onslaught of our hot summer, the better the chances. This is only my approach and I don't claim it to be the only or best approach. It has worked for me. However I must add that one of my close friend initially failed even with me holding his hands. It was only after some experiences that he began to get the hang of it. That could well be the price u have to pay to learn to handle this most difficult specie. Good luck on your NZ tea tree adventure.

Cheers,

CJ

I must have read that a long time ago because I originally posted in that thread too, commenting about how heart breaking they are. But recently after seeing this particular species with the flowers I have long been looking for.... it has hooked me in again, and with a bit more experience than when I was younger, I will try them yet again.

Though I have to admit, I might acquire a few more from the source, primarily to use as test subjects first.

[KIRKY]

Hi Rory,
I'm in Melbourne. I repot mine when it is flowering, which is now. I remove 1/3 of the roots from the bottom and about 1/4-1/2 inch from the sides. It is kept in full morning sun and dappled shade from silver birches in the afternoon in summer.
Full sun what there is of it in winter. Feeding power feed and native osmocote. I never cut back hard. I basically clip and grow. Trimming to keep shape. Growth can elongate quickly if left untouched. If that happens I cut back by 2/3s of the elongated growth. Then at a a later date trim again to maintain shape. Never let them dry out even in winter.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Kirky

[GavinG]

Yep, Rory, that's about as comprehensive as it gets for scoparium. Pruning the roots under water is something I've heard from a couple of sources, and also resting the tree in a shallow water bath after repotting. I tried it on another species of Lepto, without inspiring success, but it's all trial and error at this stage.

Best of luck.

Gavin

[Rory]

Thank you to all those who provided advice.

I have now purchased 7 of these to trial and see how I go. I realize now they are Leptospermum scoparium 'burgundy queen'.



They have flowered with deep burgundy coloured double flowers all throughout winter for me and apparently they continue to flower all throughout Spring.
They have thrived over winter in my backyard, so at least I know the conditions suit them.

They are absolutely beautiful. I will make it my mission to ensure these survive. And I will take all the advice on board and go slowly and nibble away at them very slowly and with great care

I certainly concur that they love a good amount of water.

[thoglette]

They are absolutely beautiful.

That they are. Stop reminding me

[Rory]

Well, I took the advice of KIRKY and newzealandteatree. I repotted 9 of them I think about the 27th August. I actually love them so much that I purchased 14 of the scoparium and 5 leptospermum cardwell flavescens to trial as well. But I'll repot the other 5 of the scopariums in mid Spring just to see if there is any difference between the 2 times.

I didn't repot the scopariums 'under water'. I used to do this with tube stock, but now I find it much easier to just spray them with the hose.
I removed a maximum of 40% of the roots and probably 40-50% of foliage. The roots have a bad habit of growing up and around the base of the trunk, so if they survive it will be many years of slowly cutting back to deal with the roots on some of them.

I see what newzealandteatree's (CJ) advice about not holding the trunk of the tree when you repot means. The roots are quite fragile around the base and it would be easy to dislodge and break a multitude of them by not holding the rootball instead.
I have kept the water up to them a bit more than usual just to be on the safe side since repotting.
It was so hard to not treat the roots like normal native stock, but I didn't want to push my luck.

An experienced bonsai grower also told me the same advice as KIRKY which was to just clip and grow and never let the tree grow unchecked and instead just grow it slowly and take the long road instead of continual trunk chopping and cutting back hard like we do with hardy material.

[Rory]

So far they are all alive and some appear to be putting out new growth. I noticed that on one of the tags of the scopariums I accidentally purchased was the dwarf version of this burgundy queen species, and has dark pink single flowers, (not as nice but it appears more compact).

I have a gut feeling that not leaving enough foliage on these trees is more detrimental than removing a significant amount of the roots.

I cut off about 70% of the roots off on quite a few of them, but I made sure I left a fair bit of foliage on them. Previously I often lost scoparium before I would even touch the roots. So this time I made sure I left plenty of foliage on the tree. (I probably about 35% of the foliage on, whereas previously I think I only left about 15%)

There is no science behind it nor trials to confirm it, but rather just a hunch. I think they are a species which does not react well to heavy pruning, irrespective of the roots. Some of the stock I was over confident on cutting the roots back and worked them quite heavily, yet they are all showing 100% health... at the moment. My previous attempts when cutting back too much foliage showed signs of death very quickly, so I am hoping I'm right.

I also think the best advice was to repot right at the end of winter, going into spring. If these survive, I will repot at the end of winter annually and just clip-and-grow to style them.

I think also acquiring stock with a trunk less than 1cm was a good decision, so that the impact of the root prune is less. I purposely chose the stock that had the smallest trunks, (all were up to about 1cm at the base). I also painstakingly removed all the flower buds off of every lepto right after I repot them. My thinking was that the tree doesn't need the added stress of having to flower during the intense experience of being root pruned and cut back simultaneously.

[KIRKY]

Hi Rory,
Glad to hear of your success. However becareful of removing too many roots. Years ago I did the experiment, one I took off more roots. Treated it more like a native. It was dead within a week. Never came good. The original info I gave you is tried and tested over many years. Still good to hear of your success.
Cheers
Kirky

[Rory]

Hi Rory,
Glad to hear of your success. However becareful of removing too many roots. Years ago I did the experiment, one I took off more roots. Treated it more like a native. It was dead within a week. Never came good. The original info I gave you is tried and tested over many years. Still good to hear of your success.
Cheers
Kirky

Thanks Kirky. I sincerely thank you for the advice you gave me earlier. I owe you a . I think among a few other factors, the timing of the repot was paramount as well. Yes, I understand what you are saying about the roots. In regards to the root removal I purposely left areas of root mass with fine feeders down low at the base of the roots where they will stay wet longer in the pot over summer.

The hardest test for the roots was this first removal and untangling, so from here on it will be just an annual moderate root trimming. I'm so thrilled to think they may have successfully passed the biggest hurdle.

I sprayed them with triforine a while back to prevent any myrtle rust creeping in and they didn't blink an eye from that (fist pump yeeeeah!). Most of my Mels / Eucs don't really like the triforine, but it didn't even bother any of these scoparium.

It has been quite a while since I was so excited about a potential bonsai (mainly because of those stunning flowers and the bark) which is why I bought about 15 of the buggers.

I will put up progression threads in years time when it becomes clearer which ones are the stand outs.

[Rory]

I sprayed them with triforine a while back to prevent any myrtle rust creeping in and they didn't blink an eye from that (fist pump yeeeeah!). Most of my Mels / Eucs don't really like the triforine, but it didn't even bother any of these scoparium.

Note to self: Wait 3 months after a repot before you spray with triforine. 1 is dead, 1 has a lot of die-back, but all the others are putting on exceptional growth all over and are very healthy looking. Grant Bowie and KIRKY both suggested it was probably the combination of too much too soon. I concur.

So I believe I may have lost 1 or 2, out of the approx 15 or so that I attempted. I am still surprised with such a relatively good result. After previous years' attempts on these and stories from others, I was expecting to have only a handful survive. I have a strong belief that it was the successful timing of the repot(thanks again KIRKY), because to be honest some of them got a very solid root pruning and these ones have all survived and are powering on.

Interestingly, the many Leptospermum cardwell flavescens I also attempted at the same time have not put on any new growth at all and are just sulking.
Same treatment = repot, root removal, trunk chop, fertilized 'powerfeed for natives' and a month later were given a brief triforine spray.