Native trials 2018

Incana, Lanceolata, Linariifolia, Rhaphiophylla, Styphelioides etc
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Native trials 2018

Post by Rory »

So I trialled specimens of Melaleuca thymifolia, Melaleuca linarifolia, Thryptomene saxicola and Micromyrtus ciliata and smaller quantities of other natives for 2018.
Some interesting observations so far:

Melaleuca thymifolia:
The roots are very fragile and break easily, like bougainvillea. They are quite prolific growers and their foliage is stunning. Their floral display is out of this world!! I trialed repotting in winter and spring. I lost one from the winter repot. However, I applied Powerfeed native liquid fertilizer at 50mL per 9 liters. I applied the fertilizer approx 2 weeks after repotting last weekend and the next day all the thymifolia that were repotted 2 weeks prior look almost dead the following day. The ones that had been repotted for over a month were completely fine. I won’t fertilize again so soon after repotting. I couldn’t go too rough on the repot because the roots are quite fragile. They were all bare rooted.
Also, as Neil has previously warned of dwarf varieties, I trialled the small leaf variety of thymifolia and they appear to have died very soon after a hard repotting.

Melaleuca linarifolia:
Wow, this is a very hardy choice. All of them look fine. The ones that were repotted for only 2 weeks looked a little unwell after the powerfeed but are still okay. Again, the ones that were repotted over 4 weeks prior had no sign of stress after fertilizing. Beautiful bark early and they are already putting out new growth. Amazing. I went quite hard on the repotting and bare rooted to remove all old soil.

Micromyrtus ciliata:
So far, I’ve trialled 2 different sellers and both material seems very hardy, (for the conditions in my area).
I repotted, bare rooted and removed all old soil. I trialled at the beginning of winter, the middle and end of winter/ start of spring. So far I probably just fluked it. I have not had one fatality out of 11 repotted Micromyrtus. I’ve still got 3 left to repot about mid spring. But considering they’re all going fine I should probably do the rest now.
I’ve applied powerfeed and slow release fertilizer osmcocote pellets and they are now starting to put on new growth.
The fastest ones to recover were the ones repotted at the end of winter. (That means temps about as low as 2 or 3 degrees still). The flowers are amazing, and they have been there from about most of winter. Also, a side note, after a tip from Kirky about other material, I removed all the flowers during the repot and removed any new ones that started to appear.
As a trial, I left one with about 50 flowers on it after the repot to see if it had any adverse effect. So far they seem very resilient. From others’ comments its possible this species doesn’t do well very far south, but hard to say, but it’s worth trying, maybe repot in start of summer or end of spring. There are quite a few varieties of Micromyrtus you can try so it’s possible former failures of others may be a different variety or species or variant of those grown here. But in my opinion, and under my micro-climate (pardon the pun), they appear to be fantastic material to trial. Hopefully others can join in growing them and appreciate their beautiful displays.
Thank goodness nothing appears to eat them. The only thing that goes near them are bees and flies.
The roots are very strong and I was easily able to roughly man handle them.
I will mention that I removed about 60% of the roots. In doing this, I removed about 70% of the foliage too. This ratio appears to have worked perfectly.

Thryptomene saxicola:
Massive and somewhat expensive fail. I never even got to repot them. The possums devour them. So it’s not worth pursuing them. They love the taste so much they even break off the branches and strip them bare.

Melaleuca ericifolia:
I was reasonably hard on the repotting of them and they don’t appear to be in great health. Too early to tell, but my initial experiences aren’t great. I think I worked the roots too hard, but it’s too early to tell.

Indigofera australis:
I love these guys. Very hardy and easy to repot. If you let them go bush, they thicken quickly.
You can work the roots hard too. Beautiful flowers. They tolerate both over-watering and under-watering.

Banksia marginata:
With their small leaves they make magnificent specimens. However I will give my best effort of advice. If you want to grow them, buy them as thin seedlings, so you can easily work the roots. Don’t do heavy cutting back until they’re well established (as in years), and clip-and-grow instead of trunk-chopping a few times a year. I’ve repot during the start of winter and didn’t have any problems. If you repot a banksia and remove a lot of root, don’t overwater them for almonths afterwards because the roots can be susceptible to rot if staying wet too long.

Leptospermum cardwell (small round leaf variety):
I was very hard on these on their first repot because the roots looked like spaghetti.
So far they appear to at least, still be alive. Their foliage is very small and adorable so I’m hoping they pull through.

Eucalytpus punctata:
Okay, this is really interesting. They had great stock at plants plus native nursery in castle hill. So I didn’t want to miss out on these as they don’t appear to have them often.
So I purchased 5 big, 8inch tubs. One was destroyed by a possum.
So I hatched a plan, and left them 1 meter tall. So far it has worked, and the possums don’t appear to realize they’re there. I couldn’t tell whether they were being watered well as the root ball was so tight. So I repot and went hard on the roots right at the start of winter. (Stupid I know eh). I would not normally do this and have changed my mind that I prefer spring to summer now for most natives. Anyway, I didn’t want to leave them in a tight root ball over winter so I left quite a bit of foliage on them, and they haven’t skipped a beat. They were bare rooted and the roots were worked quite hard.
So far the remaining 4 are growing very well. Until I move I’ll concentrate on trunk thickening and trying to encourage growth down low. I tied them very heavily into the pot because being such a tall tree it would have blown over in winter.

That just about sums up my 2018 trials.
:beer: :yes:
Last edited by Rory on September 17th, 2018, 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by DangerousDave »

Some great observations in there Rory. Thanks for taking the time to post them. Dave
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by [ Kane ] »

Great advise & learning, thanks
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by MJL »

Thanks for sharing your experience Rory. Appreciated.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by melbrackstone »

I really appreciate the effort involved here Rory, thanks for sharing.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by boom64 »

Great information Rory ,much appreciated. Looking forward to the book on all your adventures with natives.. Cheers John.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by benny350 »

Interesting stuff Rory, I've got a mel well over due for a repot... would you say its a little late now and I'm better off waiting?
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by GavinG »

"TRIALS"??? WHAT ARE THEY GUILTY OF? WHAT DID THE POOR LITTLE THINGS DO TO YOU? YOU ARE A BEAST!!!

(Sorry, just had to...)

Thanks particularly for the comprehensive and systematic information. Well done. I would only add that your climate may be kinder, certainly than Canberra, and probably even Sydney, so early winter may not be the nasty season for you that it is for others. I foolishly pruned a number of natives (Mel. lin., Mel. styph., Euc. crenulata (FOOL FOOL FOOL) quite late in autumn - some have just died, some have nasty frost damage, and some just sulked something fierce. Never again.

Another point - check out the size of the trunk on the full-sized tree or shrub - if it doesn't make a sizeable trunk in the wild, it quite likely won't for you either. I'm thinking Mel. thym. and Mel. eric. I've been trialling M. elliptica for a year, after I saw a grand specimen in a pot in Perth, dug from a garden - sadly weedy and unimpressive for me. I'll be trying colander-growing this year.

Hope the move goes well. Oh look, I'm just too far away to help you move 4268 trees, not to mention the seedlings, cuttings and stuff you've forgotten about - so sorry!

All the best,

Gavin
Last edited by GavinG on September 21st, 2018, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by Max »

i don't understand. It seems a trial of 6 months during the resting period, in which a native still grows,(non dormant as deciduous) from winter /spring, fertilizing during said period equates to viable knowledge, soil mix? sun/shade/ph? even such things as companion planting. My natives (grown from seed) i have learnt NEVER to root prune during the slow period (winter/spring) unless you want to give away 1/2 a seasons growth, a native gives 100% during summer. Does any1 know about Iron Bark? should (any native) saplings with lignotubers be discarded? i know they grow lignotubers but is that a hindrance to actual growth? i have no idea :palm: :crikey:
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by Rory »

benny350 wrote:Interesting stuff Rory, I've got a mel well over due for a repot... would you say its a little late now and I'm better off waiting?
Hi Benny,

Late? Not at all. If your overnight temps don’t drop below say about 10 then you should be fine. Most Mels should be fine to repot in Brisbane now. Make sure you don’t let the soil dry out for weeks afterwards though.
If you cut off a lot of root, make sure you take off foliage to to equal it out.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by Rory »

GavinG wrote: I would only add that your climate may be kinder, certainly than Canberra, and probably even Sydney, so early winter may not be the nasty season for you that it is for others. I foolishly pruned a number of natives (Mel. lin., Mel. styph., Euc. crenulata (FOOL FOOL FOOL) quite late in autumn - some have just died, some have nasty frost damage, and some just sulked something fierce. Never again.

Another point - check out the size of the trunk on the full-sized tree or shrub - if it doesn't make a sizeable trunk in the wild, it quite likely won't for you either. I'm thinking Mel. thym. and Mel. eric. I've been trialling M. elliptica for a year, after I saw a grand specimen in a pot in Perth, dug from a garden - sadly weedy and unimpressive for me. I'll be trying colander-growing this year.
Appreciate the feedback guys.

Gav, yes I assumed that about a few things I’ve trialled, which is likewise why I mentioned the mild winter for the Micromyrtus potting. It’s another reason why I’d never move to Canberra or Melbourne.
In winter I prefer catching swamp wallabies, rather than pneumonia.
Yes, I understand your advice about inspecting new material before trialing, but on the flip side I did also get advised that indigofera may not thicken the trunk over time, but so far it seems my magical personality has persuaded it to.

I like to experiment with new things and make my own deductions.
However, when it comes to advice on maintaining old aged stock, I find it better to go with proven advice from long term growers.

I prefer to leave experimenting and making my own discoveries by using cheap starter stock.
Grant gave me the best advice for old Banksias that I own, and then For new species I just did trials with new seedlings to get a good feel for their requirements / and my area.

Yeah I have also cutback or repot natives before winter for certain reasons, and I wouldn’t recommend it either, but sometimes you have to. But Canberra winters would be very unforgiving I can imagine.

I just bought a lot of Angophora bakeri seedlings to trial.
Disclaimer: I did recently say I was getting disheartened with eucs because of vermin.
But! I have noticed my A. Bakeri is doing remarkably well. So because I love eucalypts so much I’m going to try this more.
All other Angophora I tried get savaged by pests.

I also picked up a Leptospermum squarossa and more Melalueca squarossa to try. M. Squarossa is one of the hardiest Mels I’ve grown. The tree is bulletproof. You can overwater it, underwater it, swear at it, or neglect it. It just keeps on rockin.
While I was there I couldn’t go past some lovely Baekea species: B. imbricata and B. Linifolia from the Sutherland shire council nursery.

I know, I have a problem. I always want to try new natives to find those elusive gems that haven’t been properly grown or trialled. But it’s just so much fun along the way. :beer:

And I also have a lot of PK pots that need trees. Haha. ... :palm:
Last edited by Rory on September 22nd, 2018, 2:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by benny350 »

Rory wrote:
benny350 wrote:Interesting stuff Rory, I've got a mel well over due for a repot... would you say its a little late now and I'm better off waiting?
Hi Benny,

Late? Not at all. If your overnight temps don’t drop below say about 10 then you should be fine. Most Mels should be fine to repot in Brisbane now. Make sure you don’t let the soil dry out for weeks afterwards though.
If you cut off a lot of root, make sure you take off foliage to to equal it out.
Thanks Rory,

Just checked the average overnight temps and we are hitting 12's at the lowest. Looks like it's going into it's first bonsai pot tomorrow!
Last edited by benny350 on September 22nd, 2018, 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by Rory »

no idea wrote:i don't understand. It seems a trial of 6 months during the resting period, in which a native still grows,(non dormant as deciduous) from winter /spring, fertilizing during said period equates to viable knowledge, soil mix? sun/shade/ph? even such things as companion planting. My natives (grown from seed) i have learnt NEVER to root prune during the slow period (winter/spring) unless you want to give away 1/2 a seasons growth, a native gives 100% during summer.
Oh I'm sorry 'no idea', I didn't realized you'd posted that. It must have been while I was replying to Benny.

Your post is a little confusing, but I'll try my best.

There are many different techniques to growing and trialling different native material. There is no blanket rule for natives. It depends on which species and your climate. For instance, some of my leptos put on a stack of growth in summer, while others put on most of their growth in spring. Also it is impossible to say that a species will grow best in summer for too many reasons to consider. For instance, due to sun levels, my best growth is in Spring and Autumn. Also, I have found that if repot a lot of my varieties at the start of Spring, and time it well that they often will not skip a beat, and continue to flourish well into Summer. Therefore by the time mid-late spring has arrived, they are in full growth levels.
I don't usually repot many of my natives in my winter, but sometimes you have no choice if you feel there may be a chance of root rot or major drainage issues. Then, if you get low levels of sun in winter it compounds to the problem etc etc. So, what works for one area may or may not work for another and so on. :tu2:

It also depends on what stage your material is at. If you are after simply maximum trunk growth and don't care about anything else then why even repot within 12 months anyway. (provided you have adequate root room). But I find its better to keep roots, ramification and the whole picture in check, rather than trying to get a sumo trunk early.
no idea wrote: Does any1 know about Iron Bark? should (any native) saplings with lignotubers be discarded? i know they grow lignotubers but is that a hindrance to actual growth? i have no idea :palm: :crikey:
I have grown many Eucs with lignotubers. It really just depends on the look you're going for. After a trunk-chop or a heavy cut back, you will often see a multitude of new shoots developing from the lignotuber. This is somewhat of an insurance for the tree following a fire. It seems to act as a burst of stored energy after the tree has suffered heavy cut backs or die back. Even without heavy cutting back it will continually produce new shoots over the life of the tree from here. I think it looks nice, but each to their own. You can safely rub off the new shoots or encourage them to grow and form part of the design. From my experience I've never had it become a detriment to the tree by doing either option.

EDIT: I should add that in all the Eucalypts I have grown with lignotubers I have never had the main trunk(s) die-back or lose vigour as a result of allowing shoots to develop from the lignotuber. I have found it simply just adds to the overall growth.

The only issue will be, that sometimes the roots don't start until further below the lignotuber, so as the tree ages, you may have a tree with a decent root system, then the trunk, then the lignotuber, then the continuation of the trunk, and some people find this unsightly. Now, here is my personal recommendation on combatting this. Allow half of the lignotuber to remain well under the soil line, and the top half above the soil line. (this is obviously easier on larger material) Make sure the top layer of soil is heavy and will retain moisture. Then during Spring this area should encourage root development from below the ball of the lignotuber. If you are trying to encourage roots directly under the lignotuber, DO NOT rub off the new shoots from the lignotuber. ALLOW them to grow and grow fast for a whole season. Then you can cut them off and do it again next season etc etc. This (not always, but very often) encourages roots to develop from just under the lignotuber and you start to get a good nebari forming.

DOUBLE EDIT: Also, if you are trying to encourage roots to grow from directly under the lignotuber, don't ground grow it during this time. Eucs usually concentrate all root into the tap roots if it is ground grown and this will counteract your efforts. Mainly because often what happens is that in very hot summer, the soil in the pot may have dried out very badly and these roots inside the pot may dry out and die(back), and you don't notice the problem because the leaves don't begin to wilt because the tap root has grown so well it now is bypassing the potted roots.
Last edited by Rory on September 26th, 2018, 1:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by Rory »

UPDATE for 2019

Melaleuca thymifolia:
These have been disappointing. They consistently get targeted by leaf munching insects. I've tried confidor but after a week they just come back.
I do love these, and they initially grew very well. Time will tell if they can survive.

Melaleuca linarifolia:
These have been exceptional. They continue to get eaten but grow so quickly it outgrows the rate of consumption. Very hardy and tolerates wet conditions and over-watering very well. Tolerates any sun level.

Micromyrtus ciliata:
Sad. I also NEED to add river sand to the mix. Unfortunately they aren't in the best of health to warrant touching the roots yet. I will wait till Spring.
They simply don't get enough sun. You really need full sun for these guys, or at least half-day full sun.
Fortunately nothing eats them.

Thryptomene saxicola:
Dead. Constant leaf munching killed them.

Melaleuca ericifolia:
Also dead. These were striped so often they never stood a chance.

Indigofera australis:
Fabulous. They happily tolerate over-watering for a few weeks, but they don't like to stay constantly wet. They really need fast drainage, but they are very hardy and grow fast. Nothing appears to eat them.

Banksia marginata:
I lost all attempts over last few years of trials except one. I have acquired more and will apply better techniques that I have since learned.

Leptospermum cardwell:
Fabulous. Wow. Very, very hardy. Tolerates everything, low sun, being eaten, over-watering, slow drainage. Exceptional.

Eucalytpus punctata:
All dead. They just can't keep up with the constant leaf chewing.

Eucalyptus crebra:
Best Euc on the planet for Bonsai. Tolerates over-watering, drying out, getting stripped every week from leaf munching (EVERY week... I kid you not, they just keep coming back). I thought this would eventually kill them.
I've never seen a Euc like it. They tolerate full sun, only a few hours of strong shade etc etc.
They are amazing. I love this species, best Euc I've ever found. :yes:
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Growing Australian natives as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=289480#p289480

Buying and repotting Native nursery material: viewtopic.php?f=78&t=30724

Growing tips for Casuarina as Bonsai: viewtopic.php?p=244995#p244995

How to reduce moss from the trunk without damaging the bark: viewtopic.php?p=295227#p295227
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Re: Native trials 2018

Post by MJL »

Love this update :-) great info Rory. And for those that may not get to the end of this post .... I encourage you to get to the end of this post. Hint: I think Rory likes Eucalyptus crebra. :-)

In fact if it were a recommendation on the share market, I think the stocks Euc-crebra and Lepto-cardwell are a ‘buy’!


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