Mel Rhaphiophylla

[JaseH]

From here i will let the tree grow strong for at least 6 - 12 months, develop lots of interior branching through the simplicity of free growth and then repeat this process done recently, the tree will then be much fuller, some places will be reduced yes, or even removed as branches develop.

How do you deal with the tendency for natives to have strong growth from extremities at the expense of back budding on the branches? Most natives I've dealt with want to extend strong growth from the tips of the branches and building interior branch structure doesn't happen unless you cut back hard to encourage back budding or continually pinch/trim new growth to stop the extension and vigor.

[treeman]

yes this is not the 'final' tree its a stage in its construction, but i ask why cannot a tree be made to look at its very best every time it is touched, thats one of my philosophies.

I also think like this, that you should always make the tree look it's best. While the branches are growing the trunk is also and making the tree always "Look it's best" sets the scene for it's future.

I strongly disagree with this approach. My concept has always been to work for the future not the present. The image will reveal itself without forcing it out. Bonsai is about the long road not instant gratification. The ''demo'' mentality'' where you gotta have a result now. Branches should be grown, not ''made''. That's the big problem with the modern world and with many modern bonsai practitioners. I was surprized and delighted to hear Taiga Urushibata mention during one of his demos, ''always work for the future'' or words to that effect.
If you disregard todays image and focus on the future image, the results will be sound. If you do the opposite and are always concerned with how the tree looks now, you are reducing your possibilities and potentially missing the potential of the tree. This is why shaping demonstrations are usually (not always) of extremely limited value. Just entertainment.

[bodhidharma]

I strongly disagree with this approach. My concept has always been to work for the future not the present. The image will reveal itself without forcing it out. Bonsai is about the long road not instant gratification.

And you are allowed to disagree Mike but you have your way and others have theirs. it is the way of the world and it does not make you right or wrong and does not make Hugh right or wrong ..just, well..different.

[GavinG]

Sorry, what does "insinuated the direction of the design" mean?

Also, mels don't look like this as I've seen them - could you explain further about "taken the essentials characteristics of mel raph and condensed them down to bare base characteristics within the structure ive created here"?

Photos of Mel rhaph in the wild that resemble this tree would possibly help make sense.

Many thanks,

Gavin

[treeman]

I strongly disagree with this approach. My concept has always been to work for the future not the present. The image will reveal itself without forcing it out. Bonsai is about the long road not instant gratification.

And you are allowed to disagree Mike but you have your way and others have theirs. it is the way of the world and it does not make you right or wrong and does not make Hugh right or wrong ..just, well..different.

I didn't mean to insinuate that it is wrong, - personally I couldn't care less what others do with their trees - but Hugh invited comments and I considered the subject interesting enough to make those comments. There is no need to continually remind people (me) that there are differences in their approaches. That is obvious. Forums are for discussions. Disagree by all means but please stop the patronizing. It does not really contribute anything.

[bodhidharma]

. Forums are for discussions. Disagree by all means but please stop the patronizing. It does not really contribute anything.

I am sorry that you are feeling i am patronising you Mike as i am not. I agreed with Hugh and his approach which, i guess, is opposite to your view. So i guess we are in disagreement? Forums are for discussion of which i have discussed and commented and liked Hugh's approach, it was you who included me in your discussion or reply so the ball was in your court and you served, i just hit the ball back. Don't be so touchy young man.

[treeman]

. Forums are for discussions. Disagree by all means but please stop the patronizing. It does not really contribute anything.

I am sorry that you are feeling i am patronising you Mike as i am not. I agreed with Hugh and his approach which, i guess, is opposite to your view. So i guess we are in disagreement? Forums are for discussion of which i have discussed and commented and liked Hugh's approach, it was you who included me in your discussion or reply so the ball was in your court and you served, i just hit the ball back. Don't be so touchy young man.

Well since we are playing tennis, It take this comment....''it is the way of the world and it does not make you right or wrong and does not make Hugh right or wrong'' ....as being ''touchy'' AND condescending, not to mention bombastic.

[Rory]

Yes there are certainly 2 very different development approaches. My styling is very much on the same page as Mike with this one, in that I take a longer view approach on the development of the tree, but I also feel that I lack the skill to style the tree to make it ready for a showing whilst it is in the development phase. (I will be the first to admit this). By this I mean I prefer anchoring branches and clip-&-grow over wiring...I prefer to develop branch thickness first over solid placement and ramification, but this also depends on the species for bulging / back-budding etc. For example, if I am solely interested in increasing the desired thickness of a branch first, I don't bother about the placement or ramification beyond the point of the next cut, etc etc. But again this is species dependant. I believe this is why I don't yet have anything display worthy in my eyes.

Mike and Bodhi/Hugh produce exceptional and amazing material for us all to look at, so theoretically they are all correct in their approach.

Sometimes when I see some of Hughs work, I naturally want to change it to my style. Yet other times after I stare at it longer and longer I find I like it, or in time completely change my mind. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But I do love that Hugh is alternative and always has a different approach.

I "naturally" find my preference for style leans towards Mikes for numerous thread reasons. But this is not about taking sides, it is about whether you feel the tree is artistic or an attempted miniaturization. Also there is an often forgotten view that I need to keep reminding myself that a lot of traditionalists and enthusiasts view is that a bonsai is meant to display a small tree clinging for life on the edge of a crevice or rocky outcrop with minimal sun and soil. A tree subjected to these conditions with a larger tree shading the smaller one may naturally develop very different branching in this environment than if it were growing out on its own in an open field.

Branches up / Branches down.... Styling young branches first / Developing young branches first...there are always a multitude of views as is evident in the above members' photos.

[bodhidharma]

Well since we are playing tennis, It take this comment....''it is the way of the world and it does not make you right or wrong and does not make Hugh right or wrong'' ....as being ''touchy'' AND condescending, not to mention bombastic.

Think what you like Mike, i really cannot be bothered.

[treebuilder]

lol,
the question that needs asking is How many of you apart from the OP know anything about Mel Rhaphiophylla anyways.
Since they don't grow naturally in any other state except WA and none of you have any you can't really know can you.
If you think you can grow branches out first like pines etc that just not right.Given time a mel rhaph branch may thicken way too rapidly if not treated correctly, also taper can grow into a mel rhaph branch naturally!
The only mel rhaphs you can judge by are the ones shown on this forum and they are pretty standard.
it's good progress from the op on this tree.

[Rory]

lol,
the question that needs asking is How many of you apart from the OP know anything about Mel Rhaphiophylla anyways.
Since they don't grow naturally in any other state except WA and none of you have any you can't really know can you.
If you think you can grow branches out first like pines etc that just not right.Given time a mel rhaph branch may thicken way too rapidly if not treated correctly, also taper can grow into a mel rhaph branch naturally!
The only mel rhaphs you can judge by are the ones shown on this forum and they are pretty standard.
it's good progress from the op on this tree.

I don't get it. I'm not being rude, but nearly all our native material can exhibit the traits you've just said.

I've been to WA, no doubt countless others on here have too and others may have lived there too... so? What difference does it make if you live in WA? Sorry but I just can't believe that m. Raph grows so vastly different that it requires such different training. I've grown one before and it grew just like other Mel's, apart from the obvious difference of it's beautiful needle foliage.

I've seen some absolutely stunning material from pup and others on this forum of them too.

Casuarina can do all of what you've said, but I would never say that only those that live in its natural region can comment on its growth??? That's why we have cameras and the internet.

[treeman]

lol,
the question that needs asking is How many of you apart from the OP know anything about Mel Rhaphiophylla anyways.
Since they don't grow naturally in any other state except WA and none of you have any you can't really know can you.
If you think you can grow branches out first like pines etc that just not right.Given time a mel rhaph branch may thicken way too rapidly if not treated correctly, also taper can grow into a mel rhaph branch naturally!
The only mel rhaphs you can judge by are the ones shown on this forum and they are pretty standard.
it's good progress from the op on this tree.

I guess I better get rid of my Black pines, red pines, white pines, junipers, azaleas, Mel styphelioides, Mel linariifolia, all me other natives apart from L laevigatum, and all my other material which does not grow naturally in my area.
Not one line of what you say makes sense.

[Max]

Loving the read and the opinions. I myself lean towards naturalistic....however...artistic has many merits...and that tree has merit

regards
Max

[Pup]

lol,
the question that needs asking is How many of you apart from the OP know anything about Mel Rhaphiophylla anyways.
Since they don't grow naturally in any other state except WA and none of you have any you can't really know can you.
If you think you can grow branches out first like pines etc that just not right.Given time a mel rhaph branch may thicken way too rapidly if not treated correctly, also taper can grow into a mel rhaph branch naturally!
The only mel rhaphs you can judge by are the ones shown on this forum and they are pretty standard.
it's good progress from the op on this tree.

There many Melaleuca rhaphiophyllas in the East I know I sold a lot of them. Also there a two in the National collection one group and one single specimen. all of them are being grown well.

Cheers Pup.

No comment on the original OP.

[Pup]

lol,
the question that needs asking is How many of you apart from the OP know anything about Mel Rhaphiophylla anyways.
Since they don't grow naturally in any other state except WA and none of you have any you can't really know can you.
If you think you can grow branches out first like pines etc that just not right.Given time a mel rhaph branch may thicken way too rapidly if not treated correctly, also taper can grow into a mel rhaph branch naturally!
The only mel rhaphs you can judge by are the ones shown on this forum and they are pretty standard.
it's good progress from the op on this tree.

There many Melaleuca rhaphiophyllas in the East I know I sold a lot of them. Also there a two in the National collection one group and one single specimen. all of them are being grown well.

Cheers Pup.

No comment on the original OP.

PS they do grow in the South Australian gulf region as well so they are half way to the EASTERN states.