Field growing, my mistakes

[LLK]

As I said in the previous thread about field growing, I'll show here two of my mistakes.
Only those two, there are quite a few more. I grew tridents and Japanese maples in the ground and failed to prune them properly.
They all have scars along the upper part of the trunks, where I had to remove the biggest branches. Some have an awkward apex, because when a tree needed a new apex I didn't choose the right shoot for it, and/or didn't wire it. My conifers I never pruned quite sufficiently. I didn't dig up any of my in-ground trees to root prune and turn them, so they developed irregularly. And so on.

I'm not proud of it, of course, but you see, I had a hundred or so bonsai sitting on the benches, all demanding a lot of attention, so the in-ground stuff got neglected. After all, they just kept on growing with the little attention they got.

My first example of incorrect field growing is an Aleppo pine, Pinus halepensis. It was planted in the ground 4-5 yrs ago, and dug up last month. You can see what happens if you don't turn a tree. The branches are far too long, due to the fact that they grow fast and need constant pruning.

[LLK]

The following 2 photos show what can happen if you don't pay enough attention to trunk- and branch development.

[LLK]

There were also two places on the trunk which showed an inverse taper tendency.
To cut a long story short, I almost chucked the whole tree, but in the end decided to still have a go at bonsai-ing it. Below is the solution I went for. Don't know if it will work, and whether or not I should keep all the live branches.

[Asus101]

Ground growing though your not growing for style or branch placement. You want to grow for trunk thickness and movement. Once you have this then you focus on branch placement.
I think the recommended tree to start ground growing are tridents. They heal well, grow fast, easy to fix root issues.

[LLK]

Mistake nr 2 concerns a squamata juniper, i.e. the upright Juniperus squamata 'Holger'. I have had this one since 1997 and put it in the ground 5 yrs ago to get its trunk to thicken, which junipers are notoriously slow to do. This tree was also dug up last month.
From the photos, you can see that I ended up where I started, except that the tree is a bit bigger in every respect and that I have to develop the foliage pads all over again. Of course, the tree was insufficiently pruned and never turned while in the ground.

Lisa

[LLK]

Ground growing though your not growing for style or branch placement. You want to grow for trunk thickness and movement. Once you have this then you focus on branch placement.

Sure, Asus, but you can run into a lot of branch problems while the trunk is thickening, unless you are careful.
Same with tridents, Chinese elms etc. etc.
A thick trunk, even with good movement, is only a starting point. Say it takes 10 yrs to get the trunk you want and then another 10 yrs to let the scars heal and develop the branching, so as to end up with a good bonsai, that adds up to 20 years. With 20 yrs intensive cae in container growing, you'll get the same, or a better result in a more controled way, without residual scars.

Lisa

[Jester]

Thanks LLK for that valuable info . I'm sorry to hear things did'nt go as well as expected. That must be heartbreaking.

I am about to put a juniper, some crab apples and some prunus' into the ground and you may have saved me a lot of grief down the track. I had no idea for example that they had to be dug up and turned.

Thanks again for your info

[LLK]

Thank you for that generous comment, Jester.

Concepts about field growing differ, and many people may not agree with the principles I learned.

Lisa

[Asus101]

You might get good branching in a pot, but you wont get the truck thickness. You can stop trunk welling that leads to reverse taper by branch selecting, then by removing branches and letting them regrow as you go you limit the size of the scars. You will also find you will have those scares heal faster as well in the ground than in a pot.
You need to remember constant repotting slows growth, but so does restricted root growth. Even a program of over feeding wont get you the same growth in a pot as it will in the ground.

Also you need to lift the tree's once every 3 or 4 years. Not to turn the tree but to work the roots. You want a nice compact root ball full of feeder roots so you dont need to spend 20 years reducing the root ball to get the thing into a pot.

This does not mean you can wack any tree in the ground and get workable material. It does take work, and time, but will get you results far better than in a pot. Why do you think the japanese have done it for the past how ever many years?
How do you think leong gets his material as good as it is? its not grown in pots from seed....

And yes I do not agree with the things you have learned as I think you learned the wrong things and got the result from it. I'm sure if you try again using those mistakes and not repeating them you may have better results.
For me, I have done the research, found tutors and spent a year preparing soil. I may even spend another year with those tutors learning everything possible about the subject before taking the plunge.
This is different to growing in a pot, things that work in one case wont work with the other.

[LLK]

Thanks for that post, Asus. That's the kind that makes discussions worthwhile.
Note that I have nothing against field growing, and mentioned the successes that commercial growers have had, who put the needed effort and money into that long term job. I was merely warning against neglect, and showing the consequences of it.
As for container growing, trunks do thicken, even though it isn't as fast as in open ground. The big plus point of this method is that trees in a series of containers (styrofoam- or wooden boxes or big pots) placed at a practical height are far easier to maintain, i.e. kept pruned, sprayed, fertilised, watered and weeded, than those in the ground. For people like me, who already have more than enough general bonsai work to do, this solution has a much better chance of succeeding than field growing does, over a comparable number of years. And in the end you don't risk being left with 20 really good trees out of 100, and 80 you have somehow got to get rid of.
BTW, note that I never mentioned container growing large stock from seed.

I'm sure that you are well prepared to make a success of field growing. I'll be interested to see what trees you'll be planting, and how they are progressing. Please keep us posted.

Lisa

BTW, aren't you due in Canberra one of these days?

[Asus101]

Ill be heading up to Canberra on the 15th of July to some time in September.

This year Ill be starting with some C.elms that I will dig from another field. These wont be the best material, but they should do me some nice shohin clumps to play with.
From there trident maples and if I can find the source, Zelkova's as well. All three suit the area and should be fine.

When people do grow, remember to focus on the trunk movement and thickening. Let branches grow, but dont let them get too thick. Lift once every three years and prune off the bottom roots as well as slight thinning of the others. This should help form a dense mass of feeder roots. You dont need to fertilise as heavy as you would normally. Some slow release all round stuff should be fine unless you have poor soil.
If you have poor soil work it first with organic material before planting anything. Add a first crop of bean or alf-alpha and use it as green mulch. You can find tips in any usual vegie gardening book.

It does take time, not too much money, but it needs some attention. I would say less than a potted tree, but you do need to make sure branches are thinned so you dont get reverse taper issues.


Once you have all yoru trunk movement, the thickness you want then prune it back to the trunk and into your foam box. Start the heavy feeding, and start you branch placement.

[LLK]

Thanks again, Asus, and I mean it. That rounds off things nicely.
C. elms, tridents and Zelkova sound like a good lot to start with and your soil conditions seem ideal. Watch out with the elms, though, coz when you dig them up, if you leave even one small root in the ground, a new tree will grow from it. (Nice when it's Seiju, but not otherwise. )

I believe you'll be working with Leigh Taafe here, and that should prove very useful. Heaven knows his work is varied enough. Maybe we'll see you at the CBS meetings and if you become a CBS member, you could come on the annual bus trip to Sydney this year, in mid August. Always worthwhile.
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To people looking for something to place under the rootball, so the roots grow laterally and not downwards too much:
I used a thick layer of newspaper at 15 - 20 cm depth. This holds moisture and takes 5 years to decompose. The tree should have been lifted before that.

Lisa

[Asus101]

I believe you'll be working with Leigh Taafe here, and that should prove very useful. Heaven knows his work is varied enough. Maybe we'll see you at the CBS meetings and if you become a CBS member, you could come on the annual bus trip to Sydney this year, in mid August. Always worthwhile.
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Some one has to teach him something useful.