Ground Planting in Colanders

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Ray M
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Ray M »

Ellen wrote:You get a free colander when you buy 1kg of Brancourt's fresh ricotta cheese from a deli. It costs about $6. I have been using them as training pots but never thought of planting in the ground.
Hi Ellen,
They are quite good. A friend of mine gave me quite a few and they work very well.

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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Damian79 »

Hi Ray
this might be a silly question but when is the best time to plant in the ground? I want to give this a try but Im not sure when to plant.
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by lackhand »

Damian, I think planting in the ground with a colander would be the same time as without. Seems like fall should be fine as long as the plant has time to acclimate before cold weather hits.

While perusing another forum, a thread about growing in colanders came up. They didn't seem to like the ground growing idea (their loss) :imo: but were big fans of just growing in colanders for development. Somebody posted this video and I thought I would share. I have no affiliation with the product and I'm not endorsing it as I've never even tried it, but the theory behind the video should be the same as growing in a colander.

If you have any thoughts, please share, I'm interested to hear what people think or if others have tried this or a similar product. I'm thinking I might try it out.

Last edited by lackhand on April 8th, 2013, 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Damian79 »

very interesting indeed. Well its Autumn here now so I guess now is a good time to plant in the ground.
Thanks Lackhand :cool:
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Ray M »

Hi Damian,
My first question would be what species of tree are you thinking of planting? Please let me know.

The Air Pot seems to be a development from just using colanders. The theory in the video seems good, but, I have found the roots will do the same thing in the colanders. I don't know what price they are asking for these pots. Do they have different sizes? With being able to get so many sizes with colanders, it allows you to plant young trees to more mature trees.

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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by lackhand »

Ray M wrote:The Air Pot seems to be a development from just using colanders. The theory in the video seems good, but, I have found the roots will do the same thing in the colanders. I don't know what price they are asking for these pots. Do they have different sizes? With being able to get so many sizes with colanders, it allows you to plant young trees to more mature trees.

Regards Ray
I think the theory of air pruning the roots would be pretty much the same whether colanders or Air Pots. The Air Pot comes in sizes from 1 liter up to 37. It looks more expensive than a colander, which is part of why I am wondering if there is any significant difference in growth - why pay more for the same outcome? I'm contemplating running an experiment with Air Pots, colanders, and bare root seedlings in each to see if there is any difference in root development. Who knows if I'll have time or money this year though. If I end up trying one with or without experiment I'll let you know.

Here is a link to their site and it shows prices (in GBP), not sure if they have Aus distributors or not.
http://www.airpotgarden.com/store/index ... ref=airpot
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Beano »

Do you line the colanders with mesh to stop the soil falling out, or are they as is?
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

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Beano wrote:Do you line the colanders with mesh to stop the soil falling out, or are they as is?
Hi Beano,
No, I never put anything in the colanders. I just put the soil straight into the container. When the soil is wet it stays there quite well.

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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Damian79 »

Hi Ray
Ray M wrote:Hi Damian,My first question would be what species of tree are you thinking of planting? Please let me know.
I have just discovered a love of Junipers, :palm: so I want to plant a couple in to the ground, to thicken them up a bit. I thought this might be a good way to get some extra growth on them.
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by dansai »

There are some in aus called rocket pots http://www.rocketpot.com.au/
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Paulneill »

I have been planting trees in the ground and letting the roots escape through pots for a couple of years now with good results. I have found some trees will develop some very large dominant roots in one year trident maple are especially prone to this and can be hard to control . This year I waited until the end of summer to put my tridents into the ground to try and prevent the roots From becoming too thick and unbalanced . This thread has given me an idea.

How about using a materal similar to a collander or mesh sheet that will stop large roots developing by choking them before they get to big , keeping the roots balanced . The materal would need to be strong and not break under the pressure . I have heard of a technique of wrapping a large unwanted root with wire so it would choke it later allowing the tree to use the essential root for another while before it would be choked. I will be trying this with some of my trees this comming season . Just have to find a very strong plastic or stainless mesh to line my Pots with .
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Ray M »

Hi Damian,
I have just discovered a love of Junipers, :palm: so I want to plant a couple in to the ground, to thicken them up a bit. I thought this might be a good way to get some extra growth on them.
You could put the Junipers into the ground now. Growth will be a little slow but will develop as the hotter weather comes.

Hi Paul,
There are some good points you have raised in your post. Please keep us up to date with any experiments you try.

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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Neli »

Hi Ray,
I have seen this before...that is how I tried to improvise with the plastic packets to turn them in sort of colanders.
I plant the tree in the packet, water it, and then with a stick I make holes all around the packet... so it becomes a very cheap colander.
What I asked in the other post is:
The roots pass through the hole in the colander...and then they thicken...dont they reach a point where the hole on the colander acts as a tourniquet? Meaning cut all circulation to the root outside the colander?
Quote:


I wash the soil off the roots so I can check what is happening. At this point I would remove all the external roots and put the tree and colander back into the ground. The good thing with this is that you can do this several time through the season. With the main root ball not being disturbed the tree will shoot out new roots. Because of this extra activity within the tree it pushes the tree on much more rapidly than if the tree is just in a pot/container.


I dont understand how this works? I thought more roots faster growth???? Is the tree not stressed by cutting off the roots so many times? Dont the root store food supply for future growth? Are you not setting back the plant by cutting the roots so many times? If you cut them only outside of the colander, I suspect they will shoot at the cut point, and continue to thicken...until they are cut off by the colander. You will not get as fast growth as when the roots are let to run free. I am just imagining this...I have not done the colander method. Where am I going wrong in my thinking?
I have several large trees that I planted in packets...the roots escaped...and the trees grew huge..over 3 m and 15cm down. I just chopped the roots going down and there were some fine roots in the packet still left. I am talking roots over 5cm thickness...those would have been cut by the colander for sure.
You dont think a packet is better to use, since it is flexible, and expands as the roots grow. What wrong do You see with this scenario? In spring I plan to bareroot the plants since they were just imported by the time of planting...and put the roots that are horizontal through the holes on the sides...while keeping bellow shallow space with coarse medium for finer roots. That way I suspect they will be free to grow, and thicken while retaining some finer roots bellow.
Also I can not imagine how easy it is to remove eventually the tree from the colander...I imagine somewhat rigid hole of the colander...with a root that is swollen before and after the hole...Cant imagine how those roots will be removed easily.

Another point to look at is where the roots are coming out of the colander. Take note how the roots are coming out horizontally. This is ideal for getting a flatter root structure. If the tree was in an ordinary pot the roots would head downward looking for a way to escape out of the bottom of the pot. Also, because the roots can grow out through the colander it helps prevent the roots from growing around the inside of the pot.

Here I can see some roots are coming out horizontally, but on your competition entry most roots are going downwards...and are very thick. Is that not different for different plants? How long do you normally grow a tree in colander for, and what is your main objective...nebari or trunk thickening?
Sorry, too many questions as usual, but I am trying to understand how and when it should be done, and what really is the objective.
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Ray M »

Hi Neli,
Before answering your questions I would like to share some information about roots. I hope this may help in the understanding of what part the roots play in feeding a tree, and, the different types of roots.

First, let me give an analogy between a tree and the human body. When we take in food it first goes into our mouths then down a tube into our bodies. It is then processed and distributed throughout our body as required. It also stores food and that storage is consumed when needed.

A tree does a similar thing. The roots that act like our mouths are the fine FEEDER ROOTS. The heavier WOODY ROOTS are the tubes that transports the nutrients, water etc to the tree. They also have some storage capability. Because the feeder roots take up the food, the more feeder roots the tree has, the quicker it will grow.

The reason for removing the roots outside the colander, is to promote the growth of as many feeder roots as possible.

Please have a look at this article. http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews ... eroot.html This is a fairly easy to understand article. I certainly found it helpful in understanding this subject. After you have read this, please feel free to ask more questions.

There is another article, but it goes into a lot more depth. http://www.arborcaresolutions.com.au/treerootfacts.pdf

Enjoy reading. :reading: :lost:

Regards Ray
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Re: Ground Planting in Colanders

Post by Neli »

Hi Ray,
I have seen the two articles, and tried to read some more to understand it...since it answered a small portion of my questions.
This is what I found and maybe understood or misunderstood :shock: But for sure it confuses me a lot.Maybe if I new what the objective of the colander method is it will be more understood. Is it for nebari or trunk thickening, or maybe for easy transplanting/ relocating of trees that handle large root reduction with difficulties?:

Trees have different type of roots, and the root system of different trees might be different.
most feeder roots are at the surface, some distance from the trunk and grow upwards from the lateral roots, towards the surface.
Cutting the roots stresses the tree.
new roots mostly emerge from the cut surface of the root, and does not promote much/ or none emergence of fine roots nearer to the trunk.
Feeder roots are situated at the tips of larger roots.

I quote some of the things I found:

Established trees that have been growing in the ground have roots that reach out far beyond the branches or drip line. These long branches are used by the tree to anchor and support it. However most of the small feeder roots, which bring in food and nutrients to the tree, are likely to be found growing off the main roots at some distance from the tree itself.

However in a pinch, 2-3 months should allow enough time for the tree to overcome the stress of root pruning and to start the process of developing new feeder roots.
Link:http://gardening.about.com/od/gardenpri ... runing.htm

Root pruning does not stimulate root branching all the way back to the trunk. Roots are often pruned before moving a tree in hopes of creating a denser root ball. However most root growth after root pruning occurs at the end of the root just behind the root pruning cut, not back toward the trunk. Therefore, dig the root ball of a recently root pruned tree several inches beyond the location of the root pruning. Root pruning should be conducted 6 to 10 weeks before moving the tree. Root pruning more than 10 weeks before moving the tree may reduce the advantages of pruning, because regenerated roots will quickly grow outside of the root ball.

Most roots are in the top 3 of soil. The finer roots are concentrated in the top several inches of soil. Most tree roots are located within the top 3' of soil. However, because the majority of the fine roots are concentrated in the top several inches of soil, minor soil disturbances can injure or remove a large portion of the absorbing roots on a tree. This often happens in landscapes surrounding recently constructed buildings.

Trees are often weakened by root damage caused by soil disturbances such as construction related activities. Because these trees are under stress, they often loose many leaves allowing more light to penetrate the branches.

Absorbing Roots feed into long, thin Conducting Roots, which carry water and minerals back toward the
trunk. In undisturbed forest soils the conducting roots may extend outward as much as 2 or more times the
height of the tree, mostly in the top 1-2 feet of soil. These conducting roots gradually converge into thick
lateral Brace Roots, which provide most of the tree's support.

And roots suffer the same loss of stored
energy when they must react to injury and contain decay.

Now here they dont talk about advantages of bonsai media that promotes development of finer roots within the colander...and I think that is an advantage.
If new roots emerge from the cut surface mostly...then those new roots will be always outside the colander...if feeder roots are mostly at the end of those roots, what is the point of cutting them many times? Why not leave them for the tree to grow rapidly?
If all feeder roots are within 20-30 cm from the surface...some will develop inside the colander... (though they say that they develop away from the trunk at the tips of the roots.)
Will it not be better for the creation of better nebari and more feeder roots in the colander...to cut some (not all) large roots in the colander, since the new feeder/fine roots will develop at the tips? This way, the root will branch close to the trunk...and develop feeder roots inside the colander, and make better nebari? After 2 month during warm weather additional roots can be cut, till all are sorted out...
Some of this roots will escape still and help develop the trunk/nebari, but that way larger portion of fine roots will be in the colander, and by allowing some roots to grow outside the colander/or packet, without cutting them, will make the roots of the nebari will thicken much better.
That is what I think...but obviously there must me much more factors that I am not aware of...Just very simple amateurish thinking, and reasoning without proper in depth knowledge.
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