Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

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Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Muddy » January 31st, 2017, 7:45 pm

Good Evening Campers,
Thought I'd share my recent experience on seeking council permission to collect a Celtis from the creek down the road from my house in Ipswich.
The lady on the phone said she would refer my request to the environment department, but she was inclined to refuse my request. When I asked why, she said "You want it to make a bonsai. Bonsai are small trees, & the one in the photo looks too big to me."
The next lady rang & said that as a Celtis is a Category 3 Declared Pest Plant, I would need to seek permission from the Department of Agriculture & Fisheries Qld. Upon contacting them, I was told that the Celtis is a restricted invasive plant under the Biosecurity Act 2014. It must not be given away, sold, or released into the environment without a permit. Giving me permission to remove it from the local environment & transfer it to my backyard is considered "releasing into an environment". When I asked what would be involved in obtaining one of the permits, I was told that under no circumstances would a person be permitted to harvest a Celtis for use as an ornamental plant.
I have read several threads that talk about collecting Celtis from the environment around the east coast of Qld, most often accompanied with comments like "Council would let you because you're removing a pest".
Thought I'd share my experience to save others the time.
Muddy
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Sir Theodore » January 31st, 2017, 8:54 pm

Sometimes it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission! Particularly in the circumstance that an environmental weed is being removed from the natural environment!

But that didn't come from me!

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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby treeman » February 1st, 2017, 10:34 am

Never tell anybody anything about anything at any time. Especially government bodies. You have to realize that for them, it's easier to say no. Saying yes means there is potential accountability. Something they would rather avoid.
As soon as you ask permission, they have to do something, and that is just too much for them to handle without at least three committee meetings and a jug of coffee.
Last edited by treeman on February 1st, 2017, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Muddy » February 1st, 2017, 10:52 am

Absolutely.
Being new to this hobby, I constantly come across the advice of "seek permission before collection."
I have now completed my training in this aspect of the hobby, and am wiser because of it.
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Kevin » February 1st, 2017, 10:56 am

On the other hand,
Government departments love to have and encourage Volunteers.
There would possibly already be a local Bush Regeneration Group of volunteers in your area.

Just a Thought.
Kevin
Last edited by Kevin on February 1st, 2017, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby kcpoole » February 1st, 2017, 1:44 pm

Kevin wrote:On the other hand,
Government departments love to have and encourage Volunteers.
There would possibly already be a local Bush Regeneration Group of volunteers in your area.

Just a Thought.
Kevin

I second this. a few of he school members are also involved in the local landcare groups. A great source of stock when looking thru the piles of weeds pulled out :-)

Ken
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Muddy » February 1st, 2017, 2:26 pm

As long as the weeds are not restricted plants.
Otherwise it would be an illegal activity, & something I am certain the Ausbonsai host would not be happy being discussed. But if those weeds are some nice figs, then sure! Collect them all!

Or something...... :whistle:
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby bonsaeen » February 1st, 2017, 2:34 pm

While on this topic, is it legal at all to collect trees from the wild? I have been told its a federal punishable crime with like a 4k fine or something. I am in Victoria and new to Bonsai so was just wondering if there is a place in Victoria where I can collect a tree or two!
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Bougy Fan » February 1st, 2017, 5:57 pm

Remember you don't need permission to collect them on private property, celtis are everywhere. I was at a job yesterday and there was one in the front garden shaped by the gardener :shake: They are spread by birds and are all over the place.
Regards Tony

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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby bonsaeen » February 1st, 2017, 6:02 pm

Bougy Fan wrote:Remember you don't need permission to collect them on private property, celtis are everywhere. I was at a job yesterday and there was one in the front garden shaped by the gardener :shake: They are spread by birds and are all over the place.



You would still need permission from whoever owns the property.
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Bougy Fan » February 1st, 2017, 6:05 pm

Yes but not from the council or state government. Celtis are routinely wrongly identified as chinese elm up here and I have never been denied permission to collect one from private property.
Regards Tony

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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby shibui » February 1st, 2017, 6:20 pm

While on this topic, is it legal at all to collect trees from the wild? I have been told its a federal punishable crime with like a 4k fine or something. I am in Victoria and new to Bonsai so was just wondering if there is a place in Victoria where I can collect a tree or two!

That depends on what you want to take and where from.
Native plants cannot be taken from public land. no more to say.
Introduced plants can be taken from public land with permits from the land manager. Land manager depends on the land - roadsides = Vicroads or local council depending on the class of road; forest areas may be DWELP, Crown lands or Parks Vic. Most land managers are reluctant to issue permits for many reasons. You may injure yourself and sue; You may damage property while digging; You may cause road accident while collecting; You may unknowingly damage native plants or animals while collecting; You may leave holes that may cause maintenance problems or injuries to others and a whole host more so it is easier to say no than monitor your activities.
Collecting from private land will depend on the plants being collected and on the area the property is located. Most areas have restrictions on removal of native species so technically collecting native plants will not be legal but taking small numbers of small plants will not usually be noticed and will probably be tolerated but of course you will need the owner's permission.

In practice, your best legal bet is to join a group - Some bonsai groups are able to organise permissions to dig on some private or public land. Landcare, Bushcare, environment groups are often involved in removing recognised weeds from public and private land and, as has been mentioned, often welcome some help. our club works with landcare groups to remove olives from roadsides in our area. You may also be able to make friends with someone in your local council who may be able to let you know when areas are being cleaned up or renovated.

Much easier is to let all friends, relatives and work colleagues know you are a bonsai grower and looking for garden plants. tell everyone you are willing to help remove unwanted plants from the garden. Keep an ear out for people renovating houses or gardens. Builders, garden maintenance contractors, arborists and demolition contractors may let you collect before they work or take plants they have removed. I have quite a few good plants from these sources.
Good luck with the search
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby bonsaeen » February 1st, 2017, 6:33 pm

Good points. Thank you all.
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby Daluke » February 1st, 2017, 6:41 pm

Even in some instances removal of trees from private property can be an offence.

For the sake of a tree I wouldn't risk the penalties.
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Re: Denied Permission to Collect Celtis

Postby no idea » February 1st, 2017, 7:30 pm

I also volunteer at my local Landcare....you meet some great people...some with their own agendas...you soon work them out...i did gymnastics as a kid so the balancing act is easy....they should make a rule.....take 1 plant 5...there is also the old adage....."It's not what know, it's who you know"

stay out of trouble

Max
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