How much shade is considered "shade"?

[mashby]

Hi everyone
When looking through this web forum and bonsai books, the statements generally are "after potting of cuttings (prior to striking) or planting of seeds in containers, you should to cover the cuttings or seeds and leave them in the shade for a couple of weeks".
My question is what is considered "shade"?
Is it somewhere that gets no light, a little bit of light (ie afternoon sun) or somewhere that gets indirect sun but is not fully exposed to the sun at any time during the day. After all, am I wrong in assuming the cuttings or seeds need some exposure to the sun to warm the soil a bit to aid in the striking process?
It may seem a bit of a dumb question, but here in Perth I am finding it difficult to find a place that I would consider shade.
Thanks
Michael

[buddaboy]

mash, Im fairly sure they normally mean part shade, which I interpret as under the eaves of my house so the direct midday sun doesnt hit them.

buddaboy

[Luke]

hey mate.. i am also curious about the 'exact' meanings of these things! (fully shade, shade, partial sun)
'MY' thoughts are these, fully shaded is a little indirect sun daily, shaded is strong indirect sun all day, and partial sun (or partial shade), is either direct morning or arfternoon sun, with the rest being indirect. ((never direct midday sun)).

Iv been thinking that, partial sun/shade> (direct sun then full shade), could be the same as, shaded> (strong indirect sun all day).?
hey, there are lots of variables, like.. different grades of shade cloth, ETC.....)...... Hey..... my brain is almost ready to zone out on movies for the evening . anyone with thoughts on my (beginner) perspective on shade... or the topic in general.. please fill us in! Thanks! (id love to learn a great deal more!)
cheers
luke

[Bretts]

I think there are different grades of Shade.
There is Cuttings shade.
Seedling shade
Recently repotted shade.
Understory/cold climate tree shade.

[kcpoole]

I put all my newly collected trees under a couple of Eucalypts and Callistimons in the yard to recover.
they give Dappled shade from about 10am til about 3-4 pm in summer, but it is still quite light.

If you stand it the sun, and ca feel uncomfortable / hot on the skin after about 2 mins then not what I call shade

If you can leave the tools on the bench, and pick them up after 10 mins than that is OK

I know it all subjective and depends on what temp zone we have.


Ken

[mashby]

Thanks guys for your input. I'm very much still a beginner in the art of Bonsai although I have a number of trees being grown and styled and a couple that I am happy with at the moment. I've been set back about 10 weeks or so by being thrown over the handlebars of my motorcycle and shattering my left elbow and wrist and fracturing the bone that is not the ulna in my right and tearing muscles and tendons in my right wrist and both shoulders . That meant I couldn't do any bonsai work except to keep the water up to my trees. Things are now on the mend (although I still can't drive) and in addition to some serious pruning and overdue maintenance on my trees, I very much want to try and bonsai some natives I have, and I intend to use various methods to see which ones work for me - including Pup's method of propogating callistemon by standing the cuttings (which are in a mixture of crushed gravel and peat moss) in a pond basket in a tray of water under a plastic cover.[I think Pup's thread on this method is the first post in this Propogation section of the forum] Once again, however, Pup simply said "I then put the cuttings in the shade for about a fortnight (or words to that effect) and then onto the bench to harden up". But what is shade???
Brett, you said there are diferent types of shade - are you able to explain the differences or is it, once again, a subjective matter depending on where in Oz you live.
Michael

[Greth]

Here I have 50% shadecloth on the shadehouse on the northern side of the house. Fully lit from dawn to dusk, but muted by the shadecloth.
This I find is pretty good for potted plants, seedlings bonsai and all. A few real sunlovers I move outside in winter, to collect a bit more, only when there is no risk of drying. Sensitive or recently potted things go under the bench, which would be much heavier shade, rather have things survive and grow slowly than to risk them in full sun and 5% humidity. Even the 50% is too much when humidity is low, Im not going to water twice a day.
If I could be more vigilant in watering, I would move more things into the full sun longer, but sometimes I am otherwise preoccupied.
Seeds have a black metal coldframe in winter, this keeps them toasty and warm, with pretty much full sun thru a layer of perspex. Most of the humidity is contained, but I have to be vigilant, water daily, and open it if we happen to have a warm winter spell, or lose all my seedlings.
We have measured inside temp at 18C when outside is 8C, great to get early tomatoes and stuff happening. Keeps enough warmth overnight to ward off frost damage, when it gets down to -4C.

[Bretts]

Hi Mashby
Sorry about being vague I was trying to be funny and was planning on elaborating some more but forgot

It is very subjective depending on where you live, the species you are dealing with and the condition or process it is in.

I have an area that is very sheltered(not in an open area) totally enclosed in 70% shade cloth. Not the ultimate but lets call this heavy shade. This may be where you germinate seeds and propagate cuttings and place newly repoted trees in the sunny season. Basically a hospital or shade loving plants shade.

Now you may often hear morning sun and afternoon shade for certain species. In the hotter climates during the hot season it is important to understand that anything after 10:30 is not morning sun I use 50% shade cloth but also utilise shade from structures around my bench for extra shade to protect the cold climate understory trees.
It will take some time to work out which trees like how much sun. I am still trying
An interesting fact is that part shade trees don't need any direct sunlight. If you can find a spot in the yard that has sky above but it never sees the sun it may be the best place for these part shade trees. A good hint is where you might like to sit and enjoy a beer in the midday sun. Where the animals sleep in the midday sun is also a big hint.

All this said at this time of year my 50% shade cloth is down and there will be little trouble for any trees to take in as much sun as they like.

To go to your main question I would say that cuttings such as Pup's should be good in heavy shade as I described in the hot season or it is possible at this time of the year they could take almost full sun yet they would probably still be fine in heavy shade as well. With a humidity cover off course
I hope that helps some but alot of it will be from trial and error.

Hope you are back in shape soon

[EdwardH]

Hi Michael,

Shade is very subjective deepending on where you live and the season. I have always heard of shade being described as either:
heavy - no direct sunlight
dappled - spotts of sunlight getting through leaves, lattice work etc.

Morning light usually refers to any time in the am before the sun gets hot which in a Sydney summer may well be 8am on a hot day. I don't think that there is an exact explanation as these terms are generalities only. You need to use trial and error as a tree from a hot dry place may well be drought resistant in the ground but may not cope well in a small or shallow pot. If you can get to some meetings of your local bonsai club you will find a lot of people have "been there and done that" so they can advise you on the requirements for your specific species as well as having local knowledge of the climate in your area.
Glad to hear that you are on the mend.

[Greth]

Full sun is a dangerous term too. While many plants need a good dose of sunlight to grow fast and well, full sun here in summer at 40C with a northerly blowing is pretty much enough to kill any container plant within hours. The only containers I leave outside over summer are cactuses, and they look a bit thoughtful by the end of the season, too.
More important to me to keep things alive than to try to achieve maximum growth rates. The plant which grows and runs away, lives to grow another day.
My 'better' bonsai will find display space in the new shadehouse, will be similar conditions to the existing, may even have a watering system if we get really carried away! The growing stock can go there too, will keep the odd looking torture candidates and airlayer experiments in the private shadehouse.

[mashby]

Thanks everyone

[mashby]

Oops

[Bretts]

I use full sun for plenty of my trees Greth even broadleaf.