Why do we use the terms 'negative space'?

[Ash]

Hi all - this is a completely eristic question - why (in bonsai) do we use the term 'negative space'?

It is a very frequently used combination of terms and I am pretty sure we would all agree it refers to the space between a particular mass e.g. between foliage masses on adjacent branches, or between a trunk and the underneath of a branch. So do we just mean 'space'? and why don't we use 'space' alone? Or even 'open space'?

From a purely grammatical point of view 'negative space' almost comes across as a double negative. Perhaps you can understand the conundrum without me delving too much further into the words. I note that in bonsai we don't often use an opposite such as 'positive space'. I wonder if this funny match-up of words have come about as a result of poor translation from Japanese and Chinese languages?

I am interested to hear your views - both on the terms, and also on the importance of space in bonsai.

cheers

Ash

[kcpoole]

The word "Space" has no reference of information about whether it is filled or empty.

Thus a Branch and its foliage is "Positive space" ( ie filled space). where a section of the tree ( within the outline or silhouette) is "Negative space" ( non filled space).

Similar to, in astrophysics, "Matter" or "Antimatter", or "Energy" and "Dark Energy". They all refer to somewhere or something but not necessarily whether we can see it or not.

Ken

[dansai]

From the place we all know staring with w....

Negative space, in art, is the space around and between the subject(s) of an image. Negative space may be most evident when the space around a subject, not the subject itself, forms an interesting or artistically relevant shape, and such space occasionally is used to artistic effect as the "real" subject of an image.

The use of negative space is a key element of artistic composition. The Japanese word "ma" is sometimes used for this concept, for example in garden design.

I suppose its saying that the space is part of the composition and not just empty. Still sounds like a positive to me though.

[kcpoole]

The word "Space" has no reference of information about whether it is filled or empty.

Thus a Branch and its foliage is "Positive space" ( ie filled space). where a section of the tree ( within the outline or silhouette) is "Negative space" ( non filled space).

Similar to, in astrophysics, "Matter" or "Antimatter", or "Energy" and "Dark Energy". They all refer to somewhere or something but not necessarily whether we can see it or not.

Ken

Or another analogy, A Beer Glass.

"Positive Beer" means the glass is full and I am not, "Negative Beer" means that the glass is empty but I am full

Ken

[dansai]

and when looking up "ma"

In his 2001 book The Art of Looking Sideways, Alan Fletcher discusses the importance of exemplifying "space" as a substance:

Space is substance. Cézanne painted and modelled space. Giacometti sculpted by "taking the fat off space". Mallarmé conceived poems with absences as well as words. Ralph Richardson asserted that acting lay in pauses... Isaac Stern described music as "that little bit between each note - silences which give the form"... The Japanese have a word (ma) for this interval which gives shape to the whole. In the West we have neither word nor term. A serious omission.

[Wayne R]

A simple example:

birdneg.jpg

[Phoenix238]

Or another analogy, A Beer Glass.

"Positive Beer" means the glass is full and I am not, "Negative Beer" means that the glass is empty but I am full

Ken

That's some deep stuff there Ken

[Nate.bonsai]

My understanding from art was that negative space is part of the design, part of the balance or rhythm in a composition. For this reason, it is not referred to as 'empty' space - because it is not 'nothing', but is in fact an active (albeit unfilled) element of the overall work.


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[dansai]

Still leaves the question why call it negative space

[kcpoole]

Still leaves the question why call it negative space

because it is not filled with branch or foliage thus it is the opposite of positive space.

Ken

[Ryceman3]

Hi all - this is a completely eristic question - why (in bonsai) do we use the term 'negative space'?

It is a very frequently used combination of terms and I am pretty sure we would all agree it refers to the space between a particular mass e.g. between foliage masses on adjacent branches, or between a trunk and the underneath of a branch. So do we just mean 'space'? and why don't we use 'space' alone? Or even 'open space'?

From a purely grammatical point of view 'negative space' almost comes across as a double negative. Perhaps you can understand the conundrum without me delving too much further into the words. I note that in bonsai we don't often use an opposite such as 'positive space'. I wonder if this funny match-up of words have come about as a result of poor translation from Japanese and Chinese languages?

I am interested to hear your views - both on the terms, and also on the importance of space in bonsai.

cheers

Ash

The term "negative space" is not something that was invented to describe bonsai, but has been used in art & design broadly for an eternity to describe a part of the painting/sculpture/artwork which whilst void of any physical or structural entity, is important in helping to define the composition of which it is a part. All seems a bit deep and meaningful but basically it makes the "positive" space look good by accentuating it. Like KCPoole said, everything is space, and although it doesn't actually contain anything tangible, negative space in the design or piece of art is nonetheless crucial to the impact that is trying to be achieved... so it needs a name!
Now, my beer has too much negative space - I'm off to the fridge!

[Andrew Legg]

Still leaves the question why call it negative space

Because it is always whining about not having any branches in it.

[Elmar]

Still leaves the question why call it negative space

Because it is always whining about not having any branches in it.

Hahahahah well that explains the ,negative, aspect"



Cheers
EZ
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[Ash]

Thanks all - a very interesting read.

I think the aesthetic benefit open space / negative space also occurs in music, films, drama, and most visual art.

I will have to test the positive beer / negative beer scenario. Is it the following morning that the negative aspects kick in?

Ash

[GavinG]

An empty beer glass is not a negative anything around here, just an opportunity waiting to happen...

Gavin