Olive

[shibui]

What would you recommend for aftercare?

I have the opportunity to dig up a Kalamata olive tree that's quite old. The base is around 60-80cm in diameter.

My recommendation would be to leave that one where it is.
A tree that size will require a large hole to get under the lignotuber so be prepared for a lot of digging. The lignotuber is typically larger under the ground so the base could be twice that size? You'll need to dig a hole at least 3 times the size of the lignotuber to get access to roots around and under the stump and that's a lot of soil to remove - and then replace back in the hole after getting it out.
My guess is the stump will weigh in at around 50-80kg, maybe a lot more, so even getting it out of the hole will be a challenge unless you have a machine or some of those mates with plenty of muscles but fewer brains. After you get it home a container will be a challenge - be aware that all collected trees seem to expand as they come out of the hole. They are always bigger than they seem initially. Allow for a container at least half as big again as you initially estimated.
Some pics of an olive dug in 2015 by a couple of our younger members and it is only around 40 cm diameter lignotuber. That one took an hour to dig and both of them to lift out of the hole.

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If the tree survives and becomes presentable as a bonsai you'll need a pot. Any idea how big that pot will be? Price of said pot?

The reality is that you are probably young and over optimistic so you'll go ahead with this crazy plan.

Use potting mix for any plant in a container. It is possible to maintain plants in garden soil but there's all sorts of complications so not recommended.
I usually place collected olives in part shade until I get good growth indication some new roots but I've planted collected olives direct into the grow beds in full sun and they all survived. Just make sure it does not totally dry out for the first year or so.
Some olives seem to recover better than others. Some collected olives were strong after just 1 year, some take several years to grow good new roots.

[SuperBonSaiyan]

My recommendation would be to leave that one where it is.

If the tree survives and becomes presentable as a bonsai you'll need a pot. Any idea how big that pot will be? Price of said pot?

The reality is that you are probably young and over optimistic so you'll go ahead with this crazy plan.

I would leave it, but it is going to be burnt for firewood if I don't take it...

I'm not even thinking about it as bonsai at this point. I just want to save a tree that's been alive (possibly longer than I've been alive).

I'm going ahead with it, but not because I'm overly optimistic. It's just that I want to save the tree if at all possible.

If I get a nice garden plant out of it, that'll be nice. If I get a massive bonsai out of it, even better.

I'll be disappointed if it dies but at least I can try.

We'll have 3-4 grown adults to lift it, plus an excavator to dig it, so getting it out of the ground isn't a problem. With regards to a container, I was thinking to build one out of plywood at first and see whether it survives after a few years before thinking of any next steps.

I'll keep you all updated with how it goes. Based off timeline, we're likely going to be digging it up in the middle of summer as well... So that's not ideal in terms of keeping it from drying out...

[shibui]

There's a whole industry in Europe now based on large potted olives, probably sourced from olive groves that are being cleared.
Seems potted olives are flavour of the month so you'll be right up there with all the trend setters.
https://www.olivegroveoundle.co.uk/
https://www.eastofedenplants.co.uk/arti ... ting-guide

The same thing seems to be happening here too. Check the big shovel in this next link All bonsai collectors should have one!
https://gardengrowntrees.com.au/
https://www.designertrees.com.au/trees/olive-trees/

[SuperBonSaiyan]

There's a whole industry in Europe now based on large potted olives, probably sourced from olive groves that are being cleared.
Seems potted olives are flavour of the month so you'll be right up there with all the trend setters.
https://www.olivegroveoundle.co.uk/
https://www.eastofedenplants.co.uk/arti ... ting-guide

The same thing seems to be happening here too. Check the big shovel in this next link All bonsai collectors should have one!
https://gardengrowntrees.com.au/
https://www.designertrees.com.au/trees/olive-trees/

Do you mean that big yellow-black looking thing? I saw a video on youtube of one of those digging an olive out of the ground. Made quick work of it. If each bonsai club had one of those, there would be a market for much larger pots!

I think it's the trend because people are maximising their building size on any given plot of land. No room for a big backyard anymore.

I don't have a big backyard by any stretch - in fact, a mature olive tree like the one I'm planning to take is going to look ridiculous in my yard - but I'd feel bad knowing it went to firewood without me at least trying to save it.

Going to cost a pretty penny though. Truck rental. Dinner & drinks for mates. Pot / bag / wooden frame to put it in. Time and attention over the next few years whilst I try to coax it back from the brink of death.

If you have any other suggestions on keeping it alive, please do let me know. I'll post pictures here of progress over time.

Need to find some of those big green bags. They seem like they'd be cheaper than a pot anyway.

[shibui]

My experience is that keeping olives alive is the last of your problems. One of the easiest species to transplant

As far as space goes you can chop olives as low as needed. Back down to just a few stumps of branches. If necessary right down to the lignotuber. That's one of the big reasons for trees having those lignotubers - survival. If the trunk gets damaged or dies new shoots grow from the lignotuber and the tree survives another few hundred years.
Even after re-establishment you can repeatedly chop olives back to maintain smaller tree so you should be able to manage it as a really small canopy if that's what you want.

Going to cost a pretty penny though. Truck rental. Dinner & drinks for mates.

I see you already have the obligatory mates with big muscles and smaller brains mentioned above though if yours are expecting food and beverage maybe they have more brains than I'd recommend. Under no circumstances should drinks be offered BEFORE the tree is in the truck Keep their eyes on the carrot but not until after the job is done. Could also be worth holding off drinks until after the tree is actually potted up

Sounds like an interesting project. Have fun.

[SuperBonSaiyan]

Okay, so the olive tree is out of the ground.

It was a difficult dig. Very difficult. We used a crowbar, shovels and an axe to chip away at it. Thankfully the soil was mostly good, thought it was heavy clay towards the bottom.

Guesstimate is that the stump + root-ball weigh around 100-150kg altogether. Here's a picture.



Obviously, this is too heavy for bonsai. I have no idea what I'm going to do with it, other than try to get it back to life.

In terms of where I can flat cut it, could anyone please mark this out on the picture? Halving the weight would make it much easier to manage, and if flat cut, I could plant it in the garden without needing to dig a pit for the root-ball.

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. I just want the tree to survive.

[TimIAm]

Managed to score this olive today from a neighour. It was dug from next to a retaining wall. I had a 30cm x 30cm triangle of space where it had planted itself to get it out. Luckily with recent rain the ground was super soft and it wasn't too hard.

Can someone please tell me if I got any of the lignotuber? I've looked at other threads and I'm not 100% sure, this is the first olive I've had.

You should be able to make out where it's dark, which part was under the soil. There are plenty of small roots still attached.

Would appreciate if someone could tell or show me where you would flat cut, if it appears I did manage to remove enough of the lignotuber.

Thanks!

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[shibui]

I'd say you got most of what would be the lignotuber though it hasn't fattened as much as some I've seen.
Chop it wherever you like. I usually cut through the thickest part of the root base to give maximum trunk thickness.
The trunks are pretty straight so I'd also chop them quite short so any new shoots that grow will be useful.

[TimIAm]

Thanks shibui.

I think it grew like that due to growing up in a reasonably tight space. There was a strip of cement behind the retaining wall and it managed to grow in between a gap at the end. It's still a decent size, just over 10cm at the base.

Agree with the straight branches. If I was a more patient man I think I could get at least 3 decent airlayers off this. There's still plenty to work with, there's a nice thick section from the base that I can build from. Though, I think I'll somehow need to work on taper because it's consistently thick going straight up.

Here's another pic if anyone has any suggestions on how I should build it from here.

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[shibui]

The taper in the branches was the main reason for advising cutting short. New shoots used to make the new trunks will give you taper.

Looking at the new pic I'd probably sacrifice the relatively new, lower trunks and just concentrate on the older main trunk as it has character and a few bends to work with.
Always consider dead wood when designing olives. Large cuts don't heal very quick so jin and dead hollows can be used to disguise reduction cuts. Shari can also be used to give the impression of taper where there is none in thick, straight trunks.

[TimIAm]

Ok, that's it for about 12 months. The cuts are a bit rough. But I'm not in a rush to cut them flush yet. Just have to keep it alive now.

After the trim there is some nice taper in the front. There's still a couple of inches under the dirt, but I'll wait till more roots grow to raise it a bit. Plenty of possibilities on other fronts. Stay alive my friend

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[TimIAm]

12 month progress update on this olive.

As the original dig was quick and mostly unplanned, it just went into whatever soil I had in quantity at hand. Mid summer I moved this into a better soil mix to encourage root growth.

There was very little that was usable with the existing branches based on what I think is the best viewing angle so over time I removed almost every side branch. They were either out of proportion, at odd angles or it was obvious they had died back and would not be sprouting new growth. I understand this will mean longer time (talking years) to start from scratch but I think the end result will be better for it.

Good sun, soil and watering and with the onset of spring I was rewarded with a mass of new growth. I've already gone through the process of removing excess growth where more than one "branch" sprouted from a single location. I've just finished a round of thinning out some of the upper area to focus growth and some light wiring on a handful of branches, just to steer growth.

I have kept a fair amount of growth around the lower half of the tree which will be removed later. I think it's a good idea to keep some growth on to keep the tree going strong and thinning around the design. All of the bottom growth can be removed at a later point once the top is more established.

I haven't really bothered to look at the root as I'm not expecting a mass of growth below in such a short period of time and don't think there's any benefit yet to pull it out and look. I will have a look some time before next winter just to see how things are going.

It's not anything special to look at, but thought I would share my thoughts and direction 1 year on.

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