Japanese Maple forest.... two into one?

[MJL]

The main branch on the larger tree seems far to straight. I recommend removing it in the spring and the tree should compensate with some more usable growth.

Hi Gamauji Bonsai,

Thank you for taking the time to respond - all the discussion is helping me - both with this forest setting and with my skills and understanding in general - which is still at a basic’ish level.

I understand what you are saying - this is why I have tried to put a bend in it to breaking like as per my last photo. Indeed, the whole tree always causes discussion. When I took this setting to a couple of clubs to display/discuss (as a work in progress) - many loved it - probably because people were being polite but some people thought the tree was out of context. That said, it was the experienced growers who had a vibrant debate with some saying it is one of the reason the forest is interesting.

I know you are not suggesting taking the tree out - rather removing the lead branch on the main tree - however for this spring, I’d like to see how the recent amendments take and what new growth sprout from this year’s cut backs first.

I’m getting bolder with my decisions each year GB but I don’t have the guts to make that change just yet.

Thanks again for participating in the discussion - appreciated.

Mark

[鸕盆栽 Gamauji Bonsai]

The main branch on the larger tree seems far to straight. I recommend removing it in the spring and the tree should compensate with some more usable growth.

Hi Gamauji Bonsai,

Thank you for taking the time to respond - all the discussion is helping me - both with this forest setting and with my skills and understanding in general - which is still at a basic’ish level.

I understand what you are saying - this is why I have tried to put a bend in it to breaking like as per my last photo. Indeed, the whole tree always causes discussion. When I took this setting to a couple of clubs to display/discuss (as a work in progress) - many loved it - probably because people were being polite but some people thought the tree was out of context. That said, it was the experienced growers who had a vibrant debate with some saying it is one of the reason the forest is interesting.

I know you are not suggesting taking the tree out - rather removing the lead branch on the main tree - however for this spring, I’d like to see how the recent amendments take and what new growth sprout from this year’s cut backs first.

I’m getting bolder with my decisions each year GB but I don’t have the guts to make that change just yet.

Thanks again for participating in the discussion - appreciated.

Mark

No worries. I personally don't mind it in there as it gives a natural impression. After all im a forest not all trees are equal. That top just grinds my gears lol. I have the itchy feeling that you are going to remove it at some time or another. Anyway keep us updated on this ever changing piece.

[MJL]

A beautiful day in Melbourne today and I decided it was time to repot my forest. The buds are swelling and while I might have waited a little longer - I had time, so I decided to undertake the undertaking!

It's quite the job - 4+ hrs of work. I make the following observations and then let the pictures do the talking.

* The forest has been healthy but I was surprised that it wasn't more root bound after two years in such a shallow pot.
* My mix is very, very wet - that said, it's been a very, very wet winter.
I made the following alterations:
- slightly adjusted the orientation in the pot
- changed the location of the larger tree (to the left of the largest tree in the main clump). Essentially I extracted it from where it was and then cut some space and moved it closer to the main tree.
- changed the locations of a couple of smaller trees.

Among other issues - the main issue remains the straight trunk of the large tree just to the right of the largest tree.

Here's some pictures.

The old setting before repotting.

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The process

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The finished item

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The problem - see straight trunks below

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From above

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One for Ryceman3

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[TimS]

That second photo of 'the finished item' series is the money shot for me. Something about the planting from this side feels better than the other, even though the skinnier trees are in the foreground in this one.

Great work with a challenging repot Mark! It will be fun to see the ramification develop from here and it start to take on the dimension of branching

[MJL]

Thanks Tim, I took a bet each way! You’ll note that the little men face both ways... the little guy on the right of the forest is the loner to the three guys facing the other way. So the guys are sitting in the forest in different directions and that means that I am sitting on the fence. In truth - one day I hope it looks good from all angles.

[Ryceman3]

One for Ryceman3

Dig it.
Yep... noted and appreciated. Was a great day in Melbourne today, I was taking advantage of the sun too. Repotting was the theme! Yours is looking good. I see the appeal of the “back” but the smaller trees predominantly in the foreground kind of arrest the illusion. All round, looking good - back to the cricket!

[MJL]

All the tops that came off these trees in August were dipped in rooting hormone liquid and placed in covered seedling trays. I didn't even remove some of the wires! It was just a lazy experiment really.

I was staggered today when I had a little look. 95% of the cuttings are starting to leaf out! I am not sure if this is just because energy that was left in the tree tips or that they are starting to root. I hope the latter. As you can tell from this post, I am not horticulturalist ... can cuttings like this leaf without roots?

Anyway... I'll just let them do their thing and see if I can create a baby forest or two ... as offspring from the main forest...

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[shibui]

Unfortunately cuttings like these can grow leaves with no roots. In fact most Japanese maple cuttings grow shoots with no roots and that's obviously not viable for longer term survival. Larger cuttings can sometimes stay alive for several months but eventually succumb as the energy available is used up.

I know some people can grow JM from cuttings. I occasionally get some to root but they seem to all die soon after potting on into potting mix so I've given up on JM cuttings. that you get some to go.

[MJL]

Unfortunately cuttings like these can grow leaves with no roots. In fact most Japanese maple cuttings grow shoots with no roots and that's obviously not viable for longer term survival. Larger cuttings can sometimes stay alive for several months but eventually succumb as the energy available is used up.

I know some people can grow JM from cuttings. I occasionally get some to root but they seem to all die soon after potting on into potting mix so I've given up on JM cuttings. that you get some to go.

Thanks Neil. I appreciate the response. I will now park my expectations accordingly. Cheers

[TimS]

As Neil says, they are just using stored energy. I had an overgrown JM a year or two back; I took about 50 cuttings and got less than 10 to actually root.

I took cuttings of prunus mume as I needed to cut it back anyway. I’m seeing them do the same thing at the moment, so I just leave them and maybe one will actually root?

I’m going to devote some time to JM cuttings this year, but with very low tech setup I don’t hold out much hope. Air layers work really well on JM, so inevitably that’s the common method of prop

[MJL]

Another day, another haircut.

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and remember the cuttings...I mentioned above... I am too scared to take the roof of the little greenhouses off... but boy, if they are going off stored energy, they are going hard! See Below.

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I don't hold much hope .... but hope I will. Even then, re-potting will probably kill 'em. Oh, well - we'll see.

[Ryceman3]

The forest looks great!
As for the cuttings ... you can only hope!

[MJL]

Less than a month ago I gave these Japanese maples a trim. The whole forest has responded with vigorous new growth but I am particularly delighted with these three adventitious shoots - all in excellent spots for the specific tree within the forest.

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That said, at the very top of the tree you can see whereI left wire on too long and indeed, some pretty poor wiring of the main branch too. Still learning, learning... on that note, 6-7 years in to this hobby I continue to learn. For even newer folk - practice wiring often and also try to get a good understanding (from more experienced growers that I) of how to encourage ramification on the species you are growing... even now I get a little frightened when defoliating or partially defoliating, yet whenever I do this on maples and elms (e.g. Trident & Japanese maple and Chinese, English and Japanese Elms), I am rarely disappointed; more often surprised how much growth and finer branching is encouraged.) I am only just figuring out cedars and pines and on pines ... I will be doing a few courses with Scott Martin (Bonsai Matsu) in 2020.

All us newbies (and I still consider myself that) continue to learn.

[MJL]

I gave this another haircut yesterday. Just a light trim; it’s third light trim this growing season. While I am happy that the trees are healthy a after reasonable aggressive removal of the tops of each and a repot - I am not sure this forest is moving forward. It sort of feels out of control and I am not sure why ... to be sure, I really enjoy looking after (and looking at) this young forest .... but there’s something awry ....perhaps is just my own expectations.

Also, remember those cuttings ...many of the cuttings seem to have started a new life (some failed to take hold - no drama) .... I am not sure they’ll survive a repotting but I remain hopeful. It would be cool to create an entire ‘daughter forest’ from the cuttings/tops of the mother forest!

Time will tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TimS]

What is it specifically that isn’t floating your boat?

JM are rampant growers, without daily pinching of new shoots it will become wildly overgrown and look like total ass-biscuits in full foliage unless it’s a large size bonsai. Hell even with pinching and partial defoliation, the leaf size alone will still make it look like a big blob of green throughout the summer months.

If your bother is it looks rough at the moment then put that feeling on ice as it will always look wrong in these months with the trees the size they are. A group is always best assessed in winter, until then the true shape of it isn’t visible and decisions made can become mistakes.