AusBonsai

Tridents have gone bonkers, there was over 150 seeds in there and it looks like a good proportion of those have germinated.
Also going off their chops are the Chinese Quinces though these are mostly just the cotyledons at the moment. I think i had about 70 seeds and i count around 40 so far have germinated. As they put out their true leaves i'll see what kind of genetics there are and if any are going to be good for bonsai. I'd almost given up on these, nothing what happening it all, then all of a sudden they started popping up like crazy.

TimS wrote: ↑September 18th, 2020, 7:06 pm.

As they put out their true leaves i'll see what kind of genetics there are and if any are going to be good for bonsai.

What do you look for in terms of genetics at this stage Tim? Is leaf size of seedlings a good indicator of their size as an adult?

greg27 wrote: ↑September 18th, 2020, 8:46 pm

TimS wrote: ↑September 18th, 2020, 7:06 pm.

As they put out their true leaves i'll see what kind of genetics there are and if any are going to be good for bonsai.

What do you look for in terms of genetics at this stage Tim? Is leaf size of seedlings a good indicator of their size as an adult?

Yeah just going to see how the leaf size turns out really at first because their leaf size is naturally pretty big, up to 10cm or so in length, but can also be significantly smaller than that too. I'll observe in autumn if any have a better tendency to colour than others as well since their range of autumnal hues is a big feature. Also just general vigour, which seedlings are i guess 'dominant' in vigour terms and which are 'subordinate' or perhaps inclined to grow at a slower pace and think about how i could use those traits in different sizes and styles. I don't really need 40 Chinese Quinces, but if a few have some interesting traits then it's worth it.

For example the Crabapples i did from seed; Crabapple has huge genetic variation in the seedlings from one parent plant, so out of a dozen seedlings, half a green leaved and half are green-purple. One of the crabapples though has beautiful almost iridescent dark purple leaves and a twisty initial stem section from where it germinated. All the others are bolt upright, but that one seedling is naturally interesting so i will work with that one going forward for sure and maybe down the track i'll throw some wire on the others just to see what can be done with them, but it was worth 11 fairly uninspiring seedlings for this one interesting one.

I don't know how much genetic variation there is in Chinese Quince, but i'll soon find out.

shibui wrote: ↑September 9th, 2020, 6:20 am ... They will not even notice any root reduction now and will soon take off and grow far better given some space. I usually give the developing roots a hard prune to remove the downward growing roots at this stage so that they will develop better lateral roots which will later become the nebari of your bonsai.

A question for you Shibui:
I went to repot and trim the tap roots on my cedar seedlings today.
When I unpotted them, one seemed to just have a tap root with no branching/feeder roots. The others were only branched right at the bottom.. I've Included a photo of one that was branched a bit.
Would you still trim them?

Thanks,
Brett.

I have not had many cedar seeds germinate so have very little personal experience. Cedars are generally harder to root as cuttings so I would probably be a bit more hesitant to trim these than many other species however I personally like to find out what works and what doesn't so I would probably cut a few just as a trial
Seedling stage is not the last opportunity to get lateral roots. Many species do this long radicle first then sprout laterals from it later. You will probably find there is far better roots when you pot on next spring. Even then you can reduce the main root back to the best group of laterals to start good nebari.

Thanks Shibui.
That's kind of what I did - cut a few short to check how they go, left some long, some inbetween.
You don't know if you don't try

Started potting up the first Chinese Quinces

They all have identical nice branching root systems, no genetic differences immediatly obvious so i've just put them into 100mm pots for now. In a few i put 2 or 3 seedlings together just to see if i can get something a bit more interesting that way but most are single planted. I've potted up 24, and at least another 20-30 still in the seed tray so a very good germination rate.

Overall would say for anyone else thinking about doing these next year, go right ahead, dead easy no special treatments or growing conditions required. I just bunged in them in one of those mini greenhouses you buy at the hardware store for $20 in my open and free draining bonsai mix. Only thing to note is that in Melbourne at least they did take a while to start germinating; they really seemed to want that longer daylight and warmer weather before beginning unlike some other species i have seed grown in the past. Other than that nothing to worry about at all.

Really nice root system that lends itself to a good hard prune back to flat(ish) roots next year. Potted

They all have identical nice branching root systems,

All the Chinese quinces I have grown have developed strong, down growing roots as seedlings, even with initial root pruning at pricking out. Hard root pruning at the next repot seems to stop the vertical and encourage more spreading roots.

I sowed a tray of JBP a couple of months ago. I was just starting to get a bit worried they may not germinate - seed is from a new, young tree planted in our paddock as a seed source. No need for concern though. The seeds do know what they are doing and were just waiting for the right time. Only a few so far but I expect more to follow as we get more warm days.

Thanks for confirming Shibui; literally every single one i have pricked out looked identical to this so i think you've hit the nail on the head with it being their nature to grow the strong initial downward root. I'll let them get started this year and root prune them all back hard come next year. With the branching occurring up higher i don't feel the need to urgently pinch the long downward one immediatly, they can have an unrestricted first 10 months or so knowing that i have the roots up top to cut back to come winter next year. Maybe if the mood takes me on the remaining ones that are still in the mini greenhouse, when the time comes to pot up those i'll cut that downward root and then compare how the root structures develop over that time between the two approaches. Could be interesting to see side by side.

Nice to see those pines popping up, funnily enough plants seem to know what they are doing having been doing it without human interference in the process for some time It is nice to see them pop up, i still get massive enjoyment seeing seedlings germinating regardless of what species.

Agree they are slow to germinate here in Melbourne Tim. Mine have only just popped out the first leaves in the last few days. Had thought there would be no joy only to be surprised today.
Cheers
Kirky

A few Japanese maples, and the Tridents starting to pop up too.

I normally have some seed projects every year. This start of Spring I did a seed propagation for Dorset Horn Adenium I purchased (very high price and lengthy procedure), just to find out that they are just common desert rose seeds
I lost my inspiration for seed projects this year!

Here are my seedlings potted up. And seven new seedlings that had self-seeded under the cedars where I found the cones for this project and as they were in-situ. And stray seedling of unknown species - that I picked up because it was under the cedars too. And a picture of a self- sown seedling I collected a few years back from under the same trees.

That stray seedling looks like white cedar (Melia azederach). Obviously not related to the cedrus.

My JBP potted