Rehab Zelkova(?)
- Per PF
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Rehab Zelkova(?)
I picked up this at the local flower shop marked as "rehab bonsai", it was under 8 AUS dollars so I couldn't pass on it.
As bought on 28/5: I repotted it in 50/50 pumice lava (it was pot bound with some spiraling roots in some organic blend).
Today, three weeks later, it looks like this: I think it's a Zelkova of some sort? The flower shop owner knew nothing.
The plan is to style it next year. I welcome any design ideas!
Do you think I should start fertilizing this year, to maximize growth/vigor? (I have liquid organic fert.)
As bought on 28/5: I repotted it in 50/50 pumice lava (it was pot bound with some spiraling roots in some organic blend).
Today, three weeks later, it looks like this: I think it's a Zelkova of some sort? The flower shop owner knew nothing.
The plan is to style it next year. I welcome any design ideas!
Do you think I should start fertilizing this year, to maximize growth/vigor? (I have liquid organic fert.)
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Well done I would start liquid feeding and shaping, your into your summer so lots of grow time.
Cheers
Kirky
Cheers
Kirky
Great oaks from little acorns grow.
- juan73870
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Score!!
Great bargain. Just shows how significant an open soil mix can be. Well done, nice little tree
Great bargain. Just shows how significant an open soil mix can be. Well done, nice little tree
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Nice score.
If this was mine, I would put some movement into that branch on the first bend and plant into the ground.
Give it 3 - 5 yrs, monitoring the nebari and grafting small plants to any root that needs repairing.
At the end, I'd cut at the bend and use the branch on the first bend as my new leader. The bend is perfect for this purpose.
I put bend like this into most of my seedlings to accommodation that first big cut so I get a vertical scar.
After the cut, give it another few years and you will get a very decent bonsai.
Hope I didn't over step my line with my opinion. I think it is very difficult to create a natural looking bonsai from that bend.
If this was mine, I would put some movement into that branch on the first bend and plant into the ground.
Give it 3 - 5 yrs, monitoring the nebari and grafting small plants to any root that needs repairing.
At the end, I'd cut at the bend and use the branch on the first bend as my new leader. The bend is perfect for this purpose.
I put bend like this into most of my seedlings to accommodation that first big cut so I get a vertical scar.
After the cut, give it another few years and you will get a very decent bonsai.
Hope I didn't over step my line with my opinion. I think it is very difficult to create a natural looking bonsai from that bend.
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Dennis
A journey full of experiments
Dennis
A journey full of experiments
- Per PF
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Thanks a bunch for the encouraging comments! I feel even better about my find now
@longd_au No worries, the more opinions the merrier! It actually sounds rather appealing since I'm no fan of the curvation for the same reasons. I'm not sure I have the skills for that project yet though... One of the issues would be the over wintering. My plan was to keep it in my shed with extra isolation once the leaves have dropped. The shed gets a few degrees below 0 C for weeks on end, but outside it can go below -20. Will it survive in the ground?
Regarding the movement in the first branch, they feel very stiff/brittle. Would you use cuts(or the likes) to put movement into an already existing branch on a Zelkova?
@longd_au No worries, the more opinions the merrier! It actually sounds rather appealing since I'm no fan of the curvation for the same reasons. I'm not sure I have the skills for that project yet though... One of the issues would be the over wintering. My plan was to keep it in my shed with extra isolation once the leaves have dropped. The shed gets a few degrees below 0 C for weeks on end, but outside it can go below -20. Will it survive in the ground?
Regarding the movement in the first branch, they feel very stiff/brittle. Would you use cuts(or the likes) to put movement into an already existing branch on a Zelkova?
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Rehab Zelkova(?)
One option that I would consider if it were mine, would be to chop at the first branch to the right, then rotate the plant to straighten it up. IMO that will give better taper (for me the taper tends to be very similar from the first branch on the left most of the way up the trunk) and a more interesting trunk line, rather than the “S bends”.
Pop into the ground or grow bed for a couple of years to speed up the growing.
Great work on the rescue, always satisfying.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pop into the ground or grow bed for a couple of years to speed up the growing.
Great work on the rescue, always satisfying.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
You have a few options. Original post second picture two branches on the left then count up two branches on the right and cut just after the second right branch. The change the potting angle of the tree to the left. The second right branch would be your new leader. Just another thought.
Cheers
Kirky
Cheers
Kirky
Great oaks from little acorns grow.
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
This tree is almost certainly a Chinese elm. I think that's good because Chinese elm is more user friendly for bonsai. Zelkova have similar leaves but they would be a bit larger and longer. Zelkova bark is usually smoother than the Chinese elm.
It has recovered well from the repot so it is now ready for fert.
Probably give it a few more weeks before doing much because the new roots will still be brittle and the inevitable movement of the trunk while you prune, wire or bend could still break some roots.
Spiraling roots is fairly standard for Chinese elm. That's just how they grow but we can cut roots fearlessly to remove unwanted and create more root ramification.
This tree is typical of thousands of mass produced Chinese elm bonsai. I actually pity the poor buggers who spend all day, every day wiring and bending all those small cuttings or seedlings into these S bends.
More good news is that Chinese elms respond really well to trunk chop. You can cut anywhere and the stump will grow lots of new shoots from the trunk and also all round the edges of the cut. You will probably be able to find plenty of progression threads showing how they respond after pruning.
There are many options open for style because Chinese elms are so good at growing after pruning. There is no hurry to make decisions or do any work. Chinese elm can be restyled at any time of year or life.
I think we all need to be aware that Per is in Sweden where it gets just a tad colder than over here. I don't think Chinese elm would be hardy enough to survive outside in -30C all winter so growing in a pot is probably the better option.
It has recovered well from the repot so it is now ready for fert.
Probably give it a few more weeks before doing much because the new roots will still be brittle and the inevitable movement of the trunk while you prune, wire or bend could still break some roots.
Spiraling roots is fairly standard for Chinese elm. That's just how they grow but we can cut roots fearlessly to remove unwanted and create more root ramification.
This tree is typical of thousands of mass produced Chinese elm bonsai. I actually pity the poor buggers who spend all day, every day wiring and bending all those small cuttings or seedlings into these S bends.
More good news is that Chinese elms respond really well to trunk chop. You can cut anywhere and the stump will grow lots of new shoots from the trunk and also all round the edges of the cut. You will probably be able to find plenty of progression threads showing how they respond after pruning.
There are many options open for style because Chinese elms are so good at growing after pruning. There is no hurry to make decisions or do any work. Chinese elm can be restyled at any time of year or life.
I think we all need to be aware that Per is in Sweden where it gets just a tad colder than over here. I don't think Chinese elm would be hardy enough to survive outside in -30C all winter so growing in a pot is probably the better option.
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
I thought that it was a Chinese Elm last night, but then thought it could look different due to being overseas. The trunk looked to have little bud lumps under the surface. Cheers for that, not a crazy as I thought.
Kirky
Kirky
Great oaks from little acorns grow.
- Per PF
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Cheers guys I'm in no rush so I think I'm going to let it grow for a while and see how it responds to the fert. There will be a trunk chop for sure and I really appreciate the different suggestions as to where.
Imho the big structual "flaws" in the tree are the S-shape, lack of taper and the unsightly ring around the trunk just below the very first little branch.
Thank you shibui for clearing that up. I had a very hard time distinguishing between the two. This quote from bonsaiempire.com
Imho the big structual "flaws" in the tree are the S-shape, lack of taper and the unsightly ring around the trunk just below the very first little branch.
Thank you shibui for clearing that up. I had a very hard time distinguishing between the two. This quote from bonsaiempire.com
confused me further because I think the leaves look single-toothedThe Elm is often confused with the Zelkova but if you compare their leaves the difference is clearly recognizable; the Zelkova has single-toothed leaves whereas the Chinese Elm has double-toothed leaves
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
My guess is that the ring around the trunk is remnant from this being a root cutting. That mark is where the new shoot grew on the stump of root it was grown from. It should disappear as the trunk continues to grow.
Lack of taper is best addressed by pruning and regrowing which you have planned for.
I have no idea why these nurseries keep producing these S shaped plants as they have no real relation to good bonsai. I guess that while people buy them the producers will keep making more. Your plan to address the shape is also good news to me.
What is important at this stage is that you have a Chinese elm that you can work with. While you work on it you might also consider trying to propagate a few more. You missed an opportunity while root pruning. Chinese elm grow really easy from pieces of root that we cut off every time we repot.
I will look for photos of Chinese elm v Zelkova leaf
Lack of taper is best addressed by pruning and regrowing which you have planned for.
I have no idea why these nurseries keep producing these S shaped plants as they have no real relation to good bonsai. I guess that while people buy them the producers will keep making more. Your plan to address the shape is also good news to me.
What is important at this stage is that you have a Chinese elm that you can work with. While you work on it you might also consider trying to propagate a few more. You missed an opportunity while root pruning. Chinese elm grow really easy from pieces of root that we cut off every time we repot.
I will look for photos of Chinese elm v Zelkova leaf
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Even though it is well into winter here I managed to find a couple of leaves on both zelkova and Chinese elm.
There appears to be no real differenve in the serrated edges but there is a distinct difference in the overall shape of both species. Zelkova is widest near the base and tapers to a point. Chinese elm is widest in the upper half and more oval shaped.You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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- Per PF
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Much appreciated shibui! Chinese elm it is.
As soon as I read your reply I rushed out to the trash pile and found three pieces of root. I soaked them over night and potted them today - nothing to lose. When it is time for the big chop - maybe an air layer as well?
As soon as I read your reply I rushed out to the trash pile and found three pieces of root. I soaked them over night and potted them today - nothing to lose. When it is time for the big chop - maybe an air layer as well?
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Re: Rehab Zelkova(?)
Now should be a good time for air layer in Sweden. Spring and summer when they are active is when they will react quickest.
Chop can be any time. Again they will react and grow again much quicker if shopped when they are active or just before. Pruning later in summer won't usually harm the tree but you will need to worry all winter before seeing new growth.
Chop can be any time. Again they will react and grow again much quicker if shopped when they are active or just before. Pruning later in summer won't usually harm the tree but you will need to worry all winter before seeing new growth.
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