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Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 11:09 am
by Piscineidiot
Always loved the look of these and consider them (aesthetically), the closest thing to junipers from this country.
The only thing that puts me off them is the fact that they A) Don't seem to dig up well, and B) I can't seem to get any decent, workable stock.
Am I misguided here? Is there a way I can get my hands on something that I can work on without having to wait 10 years?
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 11:19 am
by treeman
Piscineidiot wrote: Is there a way I can get my hands on something that I can work on without having to wait 10 years?
Perhaps not but in 10 years time you will say to yourself ''damn...I sould have started this 10 years ago!''
(I say that to myself every day)
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 11:25 am
by Piscineidiot
That might well be true...
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 11:40 am
by squizzy
Have got some lepto lav just recently. I haven't done anything with them yet but intend to twist some and also put a few together as a group / raft style. I have also noticed they are hard to transplant and have spoke with nurseries who say they don't grow them as they can be hit and miss. Possibly they over pot them? ( tubes straight to 8inch?). I have found the best place to get them is from a forestry tube supplier.
Will post a quick shot of a batch I got recently.
Squizz
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 11:42 am
by squizzy
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 11:53 am
by treeman
squizzy wrote: spoke with nurseries who say they don't grow them as they can be hit and miss. Possibly they over pot them? ( tubes straight to 8inch?).
I
That is very poor horticulture. Don't get the idea that all nurserymen know (or care) what they are doing. Many of the containerized plants out there come straight from the propagation nurseries, are often severely root bound and thrown straight into 150mm pots from tubes and sold on after a short time. The result is a plant with completely deformed roots which has little future. It is one of my pet hates. I have seen it in everything from large expensive Citrus trees, fruit trees to natives of all kinds and everything in between.
There is no excuse for it.
But back to your seedlings they look good (above the surface)
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 11:57 am
by Boics
I lost one when transplanting / repotting a while back.
I have another one growing at the moment which is going ok.
From what I have gleaned on the forums this species does not like a hard prune and the rootball should be reduced over time as opposed to a hard and aggressive chop. Once the rootball has been reduced and consists more of feeder / finer roots I understand that one can be a bit more aggressive and they will be more tolerable.
In fact I now remember...
Grant said that he re-potted his tree on a very hot day with no-issues.
Based on this information I tried mine on a very hot summers day in Melbourne and it carked it.
Anecdotal evidence only but that is what happened.
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 12:42 pm
by Grant Bowie
Boics wrote:I lost one when transplanting / repotting a while back.
I have another one growing at the moment which is going ok.
From what I have gleaned on the forums this species does not like a hard prune and the rootball should be reduced over time as opposed to a hard and aggressive chop. Once the rootball has been reduced and consists more of feeder / finer roots I understand that one can be a bit more aggressive and they will be more tolerable.
In fact I now remember...
Grant said that he re-potted his tree on a very hot day with no-issues.
Based on this information I tried mine on a very hot summers day in Melbourne and it carked it.
Anecdotal evidence only but that is what happened.
As with all things bonsai; careful preparation, execution and aftercare are everything.
John M has transplanted/dug up quite mature wild specimens, so it can be done.
I do repot all natives when it is warmer and have no dramas.
Grant
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 12:54 pm
by Boics
Let me be clear.
I'm in no way blaming anyone - just stating anecdotal evidence to hopefully help others.
There are SOOO many variables when providing "advise" and in many ways no two events are the same.
Ie..
What were the temperatures AFTER Grant repotted compared to mine?
What was the humidity or lackof?
Where did he place the tree afterwards?
Were the following days windy at either location?
How much foliage was on the tree?
Had the tree been successfully repotted before?
What potting medium was used?
Did you mist or wet the roots throughout this processs?
And the list of comparisons go on and on and on...
Point of my post is that IMO for Melbourne I wouldn't be as hasty and carefree with this species.
It proved itself to be more fragile than I anticipated.
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 1:10 pm
by Jarad
treeman wrote:Grant Bowie wrote:quote] When ready prick out some single trees, some doubles and some triples. It is better than twisting/plaiting them together at a later stage.
I presume will not actually graft together because of the flaky bark?
At what age do they develop the flaky bark?
Like some other species wouldn't you just scrape some of the bark off and press their cambium layers together, tie them up and seal the edges with cut paste?
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 2:08 pm
by Grant Bowie
Jarad wrote:treeman wrote:Grant Bowie wrote:quote] When ready prick out some single trees, some doubles and some triples. It is better than twisting/plaiting them together at a later stage.
I presume will not actually graft together because of the flaky bark?
At what age do they develop the flaky bark?
Like some other species wouldn't you just scrape some of the bark off and press their cambium layers together, tie them up and seal the edges with cut paste?
My point is it will look more natural the earlier the trees join/intertwine together.
They get flaky bark pretty quickly.
Grant
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 2:13 pm
by Grant Bowie
Boics wrote:Let me be clear.
I'm in no way blaming anyone - just stating anecdotal evidence to hopefully help others.
There are SOOO many variables when providing "advise" and in many ways no two events are the same.
Ie..
What were the temperatures AFTER Grant repotted compared to mine? HIGH 30S MIDDLE OF SUMMER
What was the humidity or lack of? DRYISH
Where did he place the tree afterwards? HEAVY SHADE FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS
Were the following days windy at either location? NOT AT MINE BUT PROTECTED ANYHOW IN SHADEHOUSE/STRUCTURE
How much foliage was on the tree? FULL BUT HARDENED OFF
Had the tree been successfully repotted before? MANY TIMES
What potting medium was used? 40% diatomite/20% zeolite/20% mini pine bark nuggets/20% coconut fibre
Did you mist or wet the roots throughout this processs? YES, ROOTS AND FOLIAGE
And the list of comparisons go on and on and on...
Point of my post is that IMO for Melbourne I wouldn't be as hasty and carefree with this species.
It proved itself to be more fragile than I anticipated.
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 2:31 pm
by Boics
Good stuff Grant.
Much appreciated - I'll make the effort to update our Wiki with some of the general consensus here:
I've just updated a couple of pics from my golf thread with a few nice Lepto Laevigatum inspirations here:
viewtopic.php?f=106&t=14123#p146459
I will also mention that I believe Melaleuca lanceolata - Moonah to be another fantastic specimen for Bonsai..
Rather than piping up in here I'll start another thread where we can potentially gather some information on this one?
I believe one of the recent events in Melbourne covered this species in more detail..... So hopefully a few will share their wisdom here.
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 5:08 pm
by squizzy
treeman wrote:squizzy wrote: spoke with nurseries who say they don't grow them as they can be hit and miss. Possibly they over pot them? ( tubes straight to 8inch?).
I
That is very poor horticulture. Don't get the idea that all nurserymen know (or care) what they are doing. Many of the containerized plants out there come straight from the propagation nurseries, are often severely root bound and thrown straight into 150mm pots from tubes and sold on after a short time. The result is a plant with completely deformed roots which has little future. It is one of my pet hates. I have seen it in everything from large expensive Citrus trees, fruit trees to natives of all kinds and everything in between.
There is no excuse for it.
But back to your seedlings they look good (above the surface)
Agree Treeman. I have worked in a few that do precisely that
Its hard to teach old dogs new tricks but can also concede time is money. I have a landscape business and would argue many would not pay the additional money( for time) to plant these things correctly but I put the effort in anyway.
There are a few growers that pride themselves on there stock so I do get some good plants from time to time. Problem is when you show a client a plant at optimum transplant stage versus a bigger root bound one you can bet that 90% will go with the bigger one.
How hard can I root prune and tease the tubestock that I have? Will be experimental for me
squizz
Re: Coastal Tea Tree design
Posted: June 23rd, 2015, 5:54 pm
by treeman
squizzy wrote:
How hard can I root prune and tease the tubestock that I have? Will be experimental for me
squizz
I don't have a lot of experience with them but I have noticed they have some very fine hair like roots. If you keep plenty of those and cut back some of the heavy roots over 2 years instead of all at once you should be fine.
Maybe you could cut back to the first or second branch now and tackle the roots in spring?
