Juniper Squamata Nursery stock pruning/shaping advice

[Mitchell]

Hi all!

Bought this Juniper from a Bonsai nursery about 6 months ago and was wondering if anyone had some styling suggestions. Since then it has been in a 40cm x 40cm grow box developing.
Have done some full cascades before, but was probably looking at going semi with this one. I have been procrastinating as to which direction to head.
Thought I would get some opinions before attempting anything rash.

Someone at the nursery has moved branches to the back of the plant, to fill out space as it was decidedly one sided. The rear branches are very substantial and was hoping to incorporate them as apposed to cutting them for a full cascade.


If anyone could do a virt it would be much appreciated, as my skills in PS are limited with this kind of work.
This is an attempt at a virt, i'm sure the virt and design of the plant are rubbish but I keep re-doing drawings on paper and this is where I arrive. I have also included branch structure as best as I can tell, alot of matted material so I can't be sure.

It's never going to be an award winner Bonsai, but I would atleast like to attempt to turn it into a Bonsai instead of just stock.
After playing with the virt, I imagine the length of the main branch is not equivilant to the thickness of the trunk.... cut it back to be in proportion? The virt looking really thin and too long.

Thanks for looking and your time.


Mitchell

[Jamie]

think outside the square mate, just cause the tree is growing in a cascading fashion, does that mean it has to be a cascade?

im not sure on the trunk size of this but i think if you want to style it now it will have to be of a shohin size. no more than 20-25cm tall.

its hard to tell the lines, if you are going with a semi cascade think about one heavier pad that hangs low instead of developing pads. the pads will be hard to accomplish, if you want a bigger tree get it in a grow box and up on a monkey pole, grow sacrifice branches and wait a few years

[Mitchell]

think outside the square mate, just cause the tree is growing in a cascading fashion, does that mean it has to be a cascade?

im not sure on the trunk size of this but i think if you want to style it now it will have to be of a shohin size. no more than 20-25cm tall.

its hard to tell the lines, if you are going with a semi cascade think about one heavier pad that hangs low instead of developing pads. the pads will be hard to accomplish, if you want a bigger tree get it in a grow box and up on a monkey pole, grow sacrifice branches and wait a few years

Your right Jamie there is no definate reason to go cascade, the trunk has a width of 2.5cm and the main branches are 1cm for the first 15cm. The front and rear branches have heavy bends down close to the trunk, so going up seemed to be fighting the plant. I was hoping to cut one of the two main rear branches, then bring the other back up to form a higher peak on the top. Overall the plant seems very spindly in the branches, staying in the grow box may be a good option.

Should I prune the main branches back, or try to send them up a "monkey pole" as you suggested? There also seems to be some moist dead material matted in the plant close to the trunk, should I defoliate some on the inner branches to let in light to them whilst removing the dead needles?

[Greth]

I would be getting out a pair of tweezers and removing all the definitely dead bits so you can at least see what is going on, and where your side branches are placed.

[Mitchell]

I would be getting out a pair of tweezers and removing all the definitely dead bits so you can at least see what is going on, and where your side branches are placed.

Have already decided the dead needles need to come out and am doing so now. The branches are placed as in the picture, which is becoming more evident now whilst removing dead material.
I am getting the feeling much energy is being expended, on the main branches length development instead of thickening. The main branch to the right is 50cm long.

[NathanM]

The semi cascade is certainly a feasible option. But have you considered an upright mame? Not everything is always as it seems If you like smaller sized trees, you might be able to find a nice mame tree in there

** EDIT haha I started typing that 15mins ago and got a bit busy at work, seems jamie had a similar idea to mine

[Jamie]

the longer that main branch is the thicker your trunk will get, use that as your sacrifice branch if need be. let it grow long and at the start of the trunk select a branch that will create a nice line to start working it in an upward direction.

dont forget you can change planting angles to help with this. i am in the car on the way home from a very long couple of days, if you take some pics when your done getting the dead stuff out and post up a few different angles it doesnt matter what angles just as long as i can see the tree from a few different side, and maybe a top veiw i will see what i can come up with as a virtual for you, just not while i am in the car, i still have an hour or more before i am home, so it wont be untill later tonight.

there is a lot of possibilty for trees like this. look at the virt comp for this month, there is a semi cascade tree there which i have done about 5 virts for. two of which are vertical trees from a change in planting angle just for example.


jame

[Jamie]

The semi cascade is certainly a feasible option. But have you considered an upright mame? Not everything is always as it seems If you like smaller sized trees, you might be able to find a nice mame tree in there

good lad, your thinking outside the box now too there is definately a mame tree in there for sure. it is just a matter of unlocking its key features and working with its positives, and turning its bad features into good features!

[Mitchell]

look at the virt comp for this month, there is a semi cascade tree there which i have done about 5 virts for. two of which are vertical trees from a change in planting angle just for example.


jame

LoL, I was scruntinising those virts of yours prior to posting this thread.
Ok, I think I'm starting to get what you mean. Just because it is cascading, doesn't mean I need to keep it at that angle. I was assuming you meant leave the angle and train the branches up, obviously with the angle change in pot, an upright could easily be achieved.

Interesting. I will experiment with angles. I'll try and post some pics of the clean out in a couple of hours.

[Greth]

Once ya get the pricklies out of your hands, hehe.

[Mitchell]

Once ya get the pricklies out of your hands, hehe.

I'm use to working with cactii bare handed, so it is pleasant to be working with a juniper.

[Jamie]

look at the virt comp for this month, there is a semi cascade tree there which i have done about 5 virts for. two of which are vertical trees from a change in planting angle just for example.


jame

LoL, I was scruntinising those virts of yours prior to posting this thread.
Ok, I think I'm starting to get what you mean. Just because it is cascading, doesn't mean I need to keep it at that angle. I was assuming you meant leave the angle and train the branches up, obviously with the angle change in pot, an upright could easily be achieved.

Interesting. I will experiment with angles. I'll try and post some pics of the clean out in a couple of hours.

exactly mate using a wedge on ya pot to change angles can help, being in the box it will be a bit harder, on the other hand we can do it with the pictures. we can turn pictures around at all diferent angles

[Mitchell]

Ok, I sincerly think i'm going to have to duck for cover after this . Well I stand by it only for the pure fact, that is how I wanted /saw the plant heading. When it starts thickening the pads up, it will look exactly how I wanted it to look. I'm sure by Bonsai standards it is not good, yet it pleases me. I think that is half what this pursuit is about.
It appears too stretched at the moment, so i may return it to a grow box, for now though it will live in the pot.


Please let me know what you think, bare in mind what it will look like when the pads have thickened up.

This pic in not a virt, it is the plant with the background / wires removed.
The second is just for fun. Crazy colours.

[Jamie]

your tree mate we are just trying to help with advice, so thats cool. the one thing i would say that first pad you have for the cascade tail is crossing right across the apex if the tree, big no no, other wise some good pinching to chase the foliage back and see how it goes in a few years, any chance of a shot seeing the tail front on? is there any movement in it left to right? it doesnt look like it?


jamie

[Mitchell]

your tree mate we are just trying to help with advice, so thats cool. the one thing i would say that first pad you have for the cascade tail is crossing right across the apex if the tree, big no no, other wise some good pinching to chase the foliage back and see how it goes in a few years, any chance of a shot seeing the tail front on? is there any movement in it left to right? it doesnt look like it?


jamie

Sorry, I didn't mean that comment as in "I don't care what you say", I meant it in defense of what it ended up like

Should I be trying to switch those two forming the apex?

The shot does come across rather two dimentional. The pads stager left to right up the cascade, with about 10cm between tips of branches.