Be brutal

[MattA]

On the chopping board is my little lemon scented gum viewtopic.php?f=104&t=3826
Tubestock bought June 2006, trim dimensions 25cm tall 30cm wide.

july1.jpg

july4.jpg

Matt

[Bougy Fan]

Hi Matt are you asking if the new front looks better ? If so then YES

Tony

[Jamie]

gday matty

mate I think the new front is a better choice, sometimes switching fronts can give a much better flow to the tree. I have a couple of concerns though, not knowing how gums grow to much but trees in general do you think the first branch is going to be quite heavy as it gets closer to being "finished" ?
the nebari looks like it is flaring out bigtime like a dinner plate, should be interesting, any chance you could tell us how you have gotten this? as I have a few river red gums that are of only tube stock size now, grown from seed and would be interested in getting a base like that

cheers

[MattA]

Tony, The answer is in the forum its posted... "Critiques & Virtual Designs"

Jamie,

Thanks for your comments, the seasons growth & shift in weight meant the old front really didnt work anymore. What I can share of getting to this stage is in the main thread & the only thing I would add is I am going to return to my old faithful D.L after trialling a Native feed 6mths ago that resulted in more than a few dead trees & burn to this one (it has finally recovered enough to do something with it). Oh & if your going to ground grow them, put a tile underneath to help spread the roots &put it somewhere it will get watered (If I had followed those 2 points alone this would be a much better tree already)

The first branch is heavy but hopefully shouldnt get much more so now I am focussing on ramification more than growing a basic frame. Half is deadwood, with my own limited knowledge & experience I hesitate doing anything. It does need a proper selection of subbranching now I have a 3rd vote for the new front (2nd vote was from a nonbonsaier). The line between live & dead is fairly clear in this pic, the subbranch closest to the bottom was removed about 4mths ago leaving a small jin...

R0013971.JPG

The second branch & apex will now get sorted to follow the rest as well (I left myself 2 possible lines in the apex depending which front I went with).

julyvirt.jpg

Heres a pic of the nebari from the old front, since then i have removed 2 of the 3 roots on one side & left the one curling round the other side for now. I could still remove either or both of the exposed roots but it would result in some reverse taper below them, something to ponder between now & the next time it gets some real attention.I had considered layering to create a better nebari but after removing 2 of the wayward roots & turning it round I can see a story to fit. (tree blown over, top snapped out & regrew)

julyroots.jpg

150 views & only one critique....Would love to hear from a few more experienced & knowledgable in bonsai than I.

Matt

Edit
Artist first, bonsai grower second... everyone (especially the unknowledgable) is a critic of art & artists have to accept it, why is bonsai SO different "if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything" hogwash... (I was going to bump one of the several discussions on this very topic but the lines were drawn long ago & I couldnt be bothered, there will always be artists & those who would claim the title without merit)

[Jamie]

gday matty

after seeing a better pic of the nebari it must have been an illusion what I seen lol all good. you have the right Idea on where to go with this tree and you should be able to execute it champ go with your gut feeling as it is generally right.

look forward to seeing this one in 12 months and where it is at then.

jamie

[MattA]

Cheers bud, forget 12mths, the way this baby has come along I am seriously thinking about moving it to its final pot or atleast downsizing halfway there...

As for following my gut that could be dangerous..... When I trimmed this back I was very tempted to lop the whole top off & just keep the single first branch to be the whole tree... damn minimalism

[kcpoole]

Hi Matt
I like the final idea very much , But no the nebari

The root that flys out from the large central tap root looks weird to me.
Can you plant in lower to hide the airspace under it?

Ken

[MattA]

Hey Ken,

Thanks for your feedback. When I repotted last winter I was hard on the lower roots & had the soil up above those roots in the hope it may do something on its own, no such luck, maybe I should have used the toothpick method or ground layered to try & improve them, I can still do so with plenty of room to build up the soil around them again.

It has a great spread of roots below those flying roots but am concerned about the reverse taper it would cause if removed. Would this grow out as the lower roots got stronger?

Matt

[BonsaiPanda]

Hi Matt,
I do not like the lack of taper in the lower trunk up to the first branch. I think maybe a thinning of the first branch as well may help, to be able to get a downward bend in it, help with branch placement. I am not sure if u can carve this tree of if this is even possible. Oh well just my thoughts
I did a virt for you,my first one. I like the way the branches are ramifying, so good luck. (the tree is an extension of what you see in it , not others)

Regards Panda

[kcpoole]

Hey Ken,

It has a great spread of roots below those flying roots but am concerned about the reverse taper it would cause if removed. Would this grow out as the lower roots got stronger?

Matt

that woud be my concern too.
Maybe try and see if they will grow out the base and if not then you could layer it off at the current base?

Ken

[jeffseele]

yeah nice thread! nice bonsai pictures!

[MattA]

Hey Panda.

Thanks for your thoughts & the virt... great job on your first one. I got motivated to do one of my own, not good but gives some idea, instead of removing from the upper part of the trunk I could encourage shoots below the red line to help thicken the lower half. Carving is very possible with this species & the existing deadwood on the top of the first branch may be enough to give the slimming it needs to avoid more drastic action.

julyvirt2.jpg

Matt

[BonsaiPanda]

Hi Matt,
Yes that works. I like that shape much better. A branch down lower would give good balance. Great job.

Regards Panda.
Hey good job on the virt

[GavinG]

I think I can see why you're not content: even though the first and second branches come off the the trunk at different heights, because the first one rises before it spreads out, they sit almost at the same height, with the effect of bar branches. So maybe one has to go. The comment about the lack of taper is fair - if you can get a sacrifice branch low down all the better. The trunk has certainly thickened well for a gum, it's been well grown.

My main concern though, is that it doesn't look like a gum, it looks like A Bonsai. If you take the first branch off, and the top, and let the trunk take a few more wanders in three dimensions, it may tell you where it should go next. Spend a few years. Maybe if it's a gum the trunk shouldn't be to a pattern. Much harder to do than say, mind you.

Good luck,

Gavin

[MattA]

I think I can see why you're not content: even though the first and second branches come off the the trunk at different heights, because the first one rises before it spreads out, they sit almost at the same height, with the effect of bar branches. So maybe one has to go. The comment about the lack of taper is fair - if you can get a sacrifice branch low down all the better. The trunk has certainly thickened well for a gum, it's been well grown.

My main concern though, is that it doesn't look like a gum, it looks like A Bonsai. If you take the first branch off, and the top, and let the trunk take a few more wanders in three dimensions, it may tell you where it should go next. Spend a few years. Maybe if it's a gum the trunk shouldn't be to a pattern. Much harder to do than say, mind you.

Good luck,

Gavin

Hey Gavin,

Sorry I missed your post, thank you so much for the input. It does look like a bonsai, not a gum and in some ways that is the intent with this tree, to show myself a traditional bonsai can be achieved with them regardless of its natural form.

I spent a few hours yesterday cleaning up the deadwood and pruning Not thinking too much but following the buds which are already pumping everywhere. Have just taken some pics & done a couple of virts for some ideas I had while working, which partly cover your other points re taper & branching.

First to the final cut. I have removed all I intend for the time being, now it is a matter of controlling the masses of new shoots it is already starting to throw out everywhere. I removed all the straight sections or those with overly long internodes and any that headed off in the wrong direction, it looks very bare but will fill out in no time.

RZ_100_2577.jpg

I dont like the trunkline above the second branch & thought of chopping the top off. Then regrow from a dormant bud opposite the second branch turning the trunk back towards the right (blue line) or from the bud at the top of the second branch to continue a flow to the left (red line). There is a bud on the back indicated by the green line to continue that branch. With a few buds left on the lower trunk taper could be improved & maybe kept to fill some of the excess negative space.

virt2.jpg

I removed the exposed roots on the left and adjusted the soil line to improve the nebari and am considering using the toothpick method to try & get a few more roots in strategic places to fill the gaps. Then I thought, if I am going to layer it why not remove that long straight boring trunk. The apex would also be treated the same as in the previous virt.

virt3.jpg

What do you think?

Matt