Superthrive Vs. Seasol

[Hector Johnson]

That's what I mean. If someone potted up 50 seedlings and divided them randomly into two groups then tried to treat them all identically apart from the application of Superthrive, what would be the end results of say a year's experimentation?

[Leigh Taafe]

Hector,

I vaguely remember seeing a post on an American forum where a guy did a test like this in his backyard. I will try and hunt it down. Anyone else remember this?

Cheers,
Leigh

[Ash Barns]

Hello Leigh I'm sure it was Brianbay9 on Bonsai Talk.

Ash

[Leigh Taafe]

G'day Ash,

Thanks mate.

Is this it? I didnt have time to read it!

http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/f14/superth ... 23042.html

Cheers,
Leigh.

[Hector Johnson]

Message Deleted

[LLK]

I wonder if Jim is lurking

LOL
Pup refers to Jim Lewis of the IBC, who is a fervent non-believer in ST.

I just read the thread. It's pretty much what I expected to see. There was no discernible difference between the two groups.

Results on Page 4 (for those who don't have the time to read the whole thread).

Lisa

[buddaboy]

I dont use either product. I have read that superthrive doesnt really do anything so I havent tried it yet, however Ive been rethinking that after seeing how many here use it. I also have a minor sensitivity to strong smells (Lucky me)so I cant use seasol, charlie carp, etc. I use aquasol which doesnt have any smell. The missus uses seasol & cc on her plants but I cant go out in the Garden for two days afterwards.

Does surperthrive have a smell to it?

ron

[Bretts]

I just read the thread. It's pretty much what I expected to see. There was no discernible difference between the two groups. Now, anyone want to come out this weekend and herd up some snakes with me?

The Brian bay that did the experiment claims to be from a scientific back ground. I found the experiment lacking in scientific knowledge. An understanding of the ingredients of superthrive should have given a foundation for the experiment not trying to interpret claims made on the lable. There is no indication of how many doses the tree got over what time lenght except for the post dates. There is no understanding of how the ingredients work.

Auxin would show it's most outstanding results on stressed trees that are not producing enough auxin of there own. To have any credibility this test should have been done with shoot and root prunned trees and root growth would need to be measured as well as shoot growth as it is a root stimulating hormone. As the tree benifits from the extra initial root growth they should overtake the non treated trees in the long run.
It seems this test was less than a month long. It was also stated that some had stated a greener colour in the superthrive group.

I can show you field study test by experts that show increased lateral root growth of up to 20 times in conifer trees. Hell I better post a couple.

Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Department of Horticulture, Georgia Station, The University of Georgia, 1109 Experiment Street, Griffin, GA 30223-1797, ETATS-UNIS

Résumé / Abstract
Transplanting often causes root damage, and rapid root growth following transplanting may help to minimize the effects of transplant shock. The objective of this study was to determine the effects of NAA and IAA on posttransplant growth of vinca (Catharanthus roseus L.). Bare-root seedlings were germinated in a peat-based growing mix and transplanted into diatomaceous earth 10 days after seeding. Immediately after transplanting, seedlings were drenched with several concentrations of IAA or NAA (62.5 mL/plant). Both auxins increased posttransplant root and shoot growth, but the response was dose-dependent. The maximum growth occurred at concentrations of 10 mg.L-1(IAA) or 0.1 mg.L-1 (NAA). The growth-stimulating effect of these auxins decreased at higher rates and NAA was highly toxic at 100 mg.L-1, killing most of the plants. Unlike the growth of bare-root seedlings, plug seedling growth was not stimulated by drenching with NAA solutions. These results show that auxins have the ability to stimulate posttransplant growth of vinca, but their effects may depend on the application method, rate, and timing, and transplanting method. Chemical names used: 1-naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA); 1-indole-3-acetic acid (IAA).
Revue / Journal Title
HortScience ISSN 0018-5345 CODEN HJHSAR

Enhanced Seedling Root Development in Eight Conifer Species Induced by Naphthalene Acetic Acid
D. A. SEABY and C. SELBY
Department of Agriculture Newforge Lane, Belfast, BT9 5PX, Northern Ireland

Seedlings of eight conifer species, Pinus contorta, Pinus sylvestris, Pinus nigra, Larix kaempferi, Picea abies, Picea sitchensis, Pseudotsuga, nenziesii and Abies grandis, were treated with auxin, in pot and nursery experiments. Dilute solutions of naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) were applied at two treatment times, just before and just after cotyledon expansion. Lateral root numbers were increased by up to 20 times on responsive species. Sensitivity varied considerably, the three pine species showing a much greater response than the two species of spruce. In most cases the mean number of induced roots increased steadily with increasing auxin concentration. Forest nursery results showed that NAA could provide an inexpensive method for stimulating lateral root formation near the soil surface. Practical nursery aspects of treatment are briefly discussed.

[Ash Barns]

Hi Brett ....Brian is a scientist in the Bio-tech industry. He conducted the tests as a bonsai enthusiast telling it how he observed it. He may wish to reply more on this as to his conclusions for this forum as he is a member here.

Ash

[Bretts]

Yep I understand he is of a scientific back ground thats why I was disapionted with the unprofesional way in wich the details of the experiment were worked out and reported.
His answer was there were always going to be knockers of the setup. The fact is these are fundamental flaws.

[Hector Johnson]

Message Deleted

[Dave54]

Hi Hector,
by a good shot, be careful. I think the recommended dose I use is only about 2/3 rds of its small cap per 10 litre watering can.
cheers
Dave

[Bretts]

Sorry hector I read the starting post and the conclusion post manty times to try to find it and I never did.
This is all I found

___________________________________________
Experimental Design:

Each species of cuttings or seedlings were done at the same time. For each, half of the plants were soaked in ST, and half in water. The ST concentration was at label recommendations (1 tablespoon per gallon). The plants were soaked for an hour before planting. Plants or cuttings from each species were planted in the same soil mix, and same size pots, then set out in alternating rows (ST, not ST, ST, not ST, etc). From then on, all plants will be treated the same regarding watering, fertilizing, sun exposure, etc.

I would prefer 100 or more with and without ST for each species, but that's life. I expect any differences to be seen between planting and our mid-summer heat dormancy, since the treatment with ST was done only once. Either way, I will report back on this thread with numerical data and hopefully pictures of the results. I will be looking for differences in survival rates, and differences in growth (height, fullness, whatever).

And this about a month after the inicial post
OK, I'm getting too busy, and an extra week won't make a difference.....so here's the data.

_________________________________
Maybe I am missing something from inbetween posts. I would apreciate if you set me straight
It seems only one dose was given as a pre planting soak. But it leaves me unsure.

When I first looked into this I was told the ingredients of superthrive were a secret. I never checked that but thought these guys have been doing it much longer than me. Three letters starts with J One day I happened to look at the Gallon label of Superthrive and there it was 0.09% B1 and 0.048% NAA (auxin) it also boasts bio organisim soil conditioners wich I take as your worm castings low nutrient level not really a fertiliser and is not required to give analysis type ingredients.
It was not about posting the ingredients but about having an understanding of the ingredients so the experiment was not a shot in the dark. Just missing any root measurment would be one of the biggest failures of this experiment.

[Hector Johnson]

Message Deleted

[BrianBay9]

I just read the thread. It's pretty much what I expected to see. There was no discernible difference between the two groups. Now, anyone want to come out this weekend and herd up some snakes with me?

The Brian bay that did the experiment claims to be from a scientific back ground. I found the experiment lacking in scientific knowledge. An understanding of the ingredients of superthrive should have given a foundation for the experiment not trying to interpret claims made on the lable. There is no indication of how many doses the tree got over what time lenght except for the post dates. There is no understanding of how the ingredients work.

Auxin would show it's most outstanding results on stressed trees that are not producing enough auxin of there own. To have any credibility this test should have been done with shoot and root prunned trees and root growth would need to be measured as well as shoot growth as it is a root stimulating hormone. As the tree benifits from the extra initial root growth they should overtake the non treated trees in the long run.
It seems this test was less than a month long. It was also stated that some had stated a greener colour in the superthrive group.

I can show you field study test by experts that show increased lateral root growth of up to 20 times in conifer trees. Hell I better post a couple.

Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Department of Horticulture, Georgia Station, The University of Georgia, 1109 Experiment Street, Griffin, GA 30223-1797, ETATS-UNIS

Résumé / Abstract
Transplanting often causes root damage, and rapid root growth following transplanting may help to minimize the effects of transplant shock. The objective of this study was to determine the effects of NAA and IAA on posttransplant growth of vinca (Catharanthus roseus L.). Bare-root seedlings were germinated in a peat-based growing mix and transplanted into diatomaceous earth 10 days after seeding. Immediately after transplanting, seedlings were drenched with several concentrations of IAA or NAA (62.5 mL/plant). Both auxins increased posttransplant root and shoot growth, but the response was dose-dependent. The maximum growth occurred at concentrations of 10 mg.L-1(IAA) or 0.1 mg.L-1 (NAA). The growth-stimulating effect of these auxins decreased at higher rates and NAA was highly toxic at 100 mg.L-1, killing most of the plants. Unlike the growth of bare-root seedlings, plug seedling growth was not stimulated by drenching with NAA solutions. These results show that auxins have the ability to stimulate posttransplant growth of vinca, but their effects may depend on the application method, rate, and timing, and transplanting method. Chemical names used: 1-naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA); 1-indole-3-acetic acid (IAA).
Revue / Journal Title
HortScience ISSN 0018-5345 CODEN HJHSAR

Enhanced Seedling Root Development in Eight Conifer Species Induced by Naphthalene Acetic Acid
D. A. SEABY and C. SELBY
Department of Agriculture Newforge Lane, Belfast, BT9 5PX, Northern Ireland

Seedlings of eight conifer species, Pinus contorta, Pinus sylvestris, Pinus nigra, Larix kaempferi, Picea abies, Picea sitchensis, Pseudotsuga, nenziesii and Abies grandis, were treated with auxin, in pot and nursery experiments. Dilute solutions of naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) were applied at two treatment times, just before and just after cotyledon expansion. Lateral root numbers were increased by up to 20 times on responsive species. Sensitivity varied considerably, the three pine species showing a much greater response than the two species of spruce. In most cases the mean number of induced roots increased steadily with increasing auxin concentration. Forest nursery results showed that NAA could provide an inexpensive method for stimulating lateral root formation near the soil surface. Practical nursery aspects of treatment are briefly discussed.

Brett,

It was not my intent to test the effects of auxins on stressed trees. It was my intent to do a simple experiment to test one of the many outrageous claims made on the Superthrive labels. I have no idea if ST contains auxins, or anything else for that matter. It does not list its contents, but does claim it "works best when extra fertilizer is combined" with it. For all I know, the stuff is slightly smelly water. The experiment was simple, using the materials available to me. If I had time, money and a lab available I could have done a much more thorough job. But then again, I don't was not trying to provide support for ST's marketing claims. I wanted to know if it made any difference in my plant growth practices.

Your comment here and elsewhere do indeed border on religion. Please feel free to use auxins or ST if you wish. Please feel free to ignore my modest attempts at checking ST claims. I will not use it.

Brian