Ken did you just type that with your left big toe.kcpoole wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 10:08 pmI can supply most indivuidually excepet the Chines soil as that has too much corona in it to be imported at the moments and the Diamond dust is a little scarce as they are bitch sand downsquizzy wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 8:13 pmCan you get ingredients individually. I was going to throw the rest in the bin.Keep Calm and Ramify wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 8:11 pm can I just buy a 30kg bag of the blonde virgins hair? (...Asking for a friend)
Ken
Soil Mix
- squizzy
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 1438
- Joined: March 2nd, 2011, 4:12 pm
- Favorite Species: pines
- Bonsai Age: 10
- Location: sydney
- Has thanked: 20 times
- Been thanked: 11 times
Re: Soil Mix
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55..............................
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 145
- Joined: June 29th, 2010, 3:01 am
- Favorite Species: Anything that flowers
- Bonsai Age: 15
- Bonsai Club: Sydney City Bonsai Club, Bonsai Society of Sydney, School of Bonsai
- Location: Bankstown, Sydney
- Has thanked: 23 times
- Been thanked: 48 times
Re: Soil Mix
pines and junipers get
1 part pine buggets
1 part akadama
2 parts pumice
Others get "Bonsai Soil"
Simon
1 part pine buggets
1 part akadama
2 parts pumice
Others get "Bonsai Soil"
Simon
- Bougy Fan
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2597
- Joined: February 9th, 2010, 5:52 pm
- Favorite Species: Bougainvillea, Ficus and Swamp Cypress
- Bonsai Age: 4
- Bonsai Club: Bimer
- Location: Brisbane
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 53 times
Re: Soil Mix
Surely you have known Ken long enough to know he uses interpretive text Squizzy ?Ken did you just type that with your left big toe.
Regards Tony
"The problem with quotes found on the Internet is that it's hard to be sure of their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln
"The problem with quotes found on the Internet is that it's hard to be sure of their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln
- dennismc
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 90
- Joined: November 18th, 2008, 6:52 pm
- Favorite Species: Natives, JBP, Cfrepe Myrtle
- Bonsai Age: 40
- Bonsai Club: Teacher, School of Bonsai
- Location: Sydney
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 7 times
Re: Soil Mix
Hi Folks that damnable request for the perfect soil mix again. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST. Many factors will affect the best soil for you including:
. Your growing environment
. feeding/fertilizing regime
. types of trees grown
. climate (summer heat/winter cold)
. etc.
Any soil should be at its best in the worst conditions and that for me is in the cold wet winter
You need to talk to growers local to you. That said here is my mix I have used for more than 30 years. Probably unfashionable currently but it works for me. Note my trees are grown in full sun with automatic watering as required. It consists of equal arts of a good quality potting mix and river sand. When potting up I add some blood and bone and slow release fertilizer ( complete fertilizer with trace elements added). Note I never use potting mix for natives at all as it is deficient in minerals that all plants need.
Dennis Mc
. Your growing environment
. feeding/fertilizing regime
. types of trees grown
. climate (summer heat/winter cold)
. etc.
Any soil should be at its best in the worst conditions and that for me is in the cold wet winter
You need to talk to growers local to you. That said here is my mix I have used for more than 30 years. Probably unfashionable currently but it works for me. Note my trees are grown in full sun with automatic watering as required. It consists of equal arts of a good quality potting mix and river sand. When potting up I add some blood and bone and slow release fertilizer ( complete fertilizer with trace elements added). Note I never use potting mix for natives at all as it is deficient in minerals that all plants need.
Dennis Mc
- treeman
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2836
- Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
- Favorite Species: any
- Bonsai Age: 25
- Location: melbourne
- Has thanked: 28 times
- Been thanked: 571 times
Re: Soil Mix
Keep Calm and Ramify wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 8:11 pm can I just buy a 30kg bag of the blonde virgins hair? (...Asking for a friend)
Mike
- kcpoole
- Perpetual Learner
- Posts: 12272
- Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 15
- Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
- Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 84 times
- Contact:
Re: Soil Mix
I am am claiming autocorrect as the culprit!squizzy wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 10:58 pmKen did you just type that with your left big toe.kcpoole wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 10:08 pmI can supply most indivuidually excepet the Chines soil as that has too much corona in it to be imported at the moments and the Diamond dust is a little scarce as they are bitch sand downsquizzy wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 8:13 pmCan you get ingredients individually. I was going to throw the rest in the bin.Keep Calm and Ramify wrote: ↑May 12th, 2020, 8:11 pm can I just buy a 30kg bag of the blonde virgins hair? (...Asking for a friend)
Ken
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2213
- Joined: April 26th, 2010, 11:47 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 0
- Bonsai Club: CBS
- Location: Canberra
- Has thanked: 456 times
- Been thanked: 228 times
Re: Soil Mix
Kate, just in case you wanted an answer...
I'll agree with Dennis, my mix is 50% native potting mix, 50% coarse grit (like pumice, diatomite, coarse river sand if you can't get the others.) It's a basic recipe that will get you started. If finding the ingredients is a problem, you might like to connect up with your local club, who usually have the sourcing worked out .
Good luck. The hysterical madness that your very reasonable post has stimulated, is due to collective insanity - there have been endless posts here, everyone thinks their own mix is best, and there is never The One Perfect Recipe. Try what I've suggested, and modify it to suit your trees, your climate, and your habits - for instance, if you are a nervous over-waterer, you'll need more drainage, if you are a bit unreliable with watering (join the club!) you may need a bit more moisture-holding stuff in your mix. Pines might need a bit more drainage, Leptospermum and the like, that are dead if they dry out even a bit, may need more potting mix. It isn't rocket science, a wide range of mixes are used successfully, but it needs to suit your climate, your trees and your temperament.
Gavin
I'll agree with Dennis, my mix is 50% native potting mix, 50% coarse grit (like pumice, diatomite, coarse river sand if you can't get the others.) It's a basic recipe that will get you started. If finding the ingredients is a problem, you might like to connect up with your local club, who usually have the sourcing worked out .
Good luck. The hysterical madness that your very reasonable post has stimulated, is due to collective insanity - there have been endless posts here, everyone thinks their own mix is best, and there is never The One Perfect Recipe. Try what I've suggested, and modify it to suit your trees, your climate, and your habits - for instance, if you are a nervous over-waterer, you'll need more drainage, if you are a bit unreliable with watering (join the club!) you may need a bit more moisture-holding stuff in your mix. Pines might need a bit more drainage, Leptospermum and the like, that are dead if they dry out even a bit, may need more potting mix. It isn't rocket science, a wide range of mixes are used successfully, but it needs to suit your climate, your trees and your temperament.
Gavin
- MJL
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2840
- Joined: October 26th, 2014, 8:47 pm
- Favorite Species: Maples, Elms, Cedars and Pines
- Bonsai Age: 7
- Bonsai Club: Waverley Bonsai Group & Yarra Valley Bonsai Society
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 424 times
- Been thanked: 643 times
Re: Soil Mix
I must agree with GavinG (not Gerard ) --- it must be something to do with isolation....
Kate, I cannot remember a post that has stimulated so much immediate and funny responses. Great post ... albeit I am sure you thought you might receive one of two logical responses to a straight forward question. Hang in there.
Tending bonsai teaches me patience.
- Brekel
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 117
- Joined: October 31st, 2016, 1:20 pm
- Favorite Species: Tas natives
- Bonsai Age: 2
- Location: Hobart
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 52 times
Re: Soil Mix
Hi Shibui - just wondering, is that regular pine bark or composted pine bark?
I've read mixed opinions: Some say non-composted would draw down the nitrogen too much, and some say that because it decomposes so slowly and re-releases N as it breaks down that effectively it doesn't matter
Down in Tassie a lot of "common" soil components are hard to come by, but non-composted pinebark in various grades is readily available, as is propogating sand.
Thanks,
Brett.
Nothofagus-Melaleuca-Leptospermum-Lagarostrobos-Cedrus-Acer
- one_bonsai
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 193
- Joined: December 2nd, 2018, 12:07 pm
- Favorite Species: Juniper
- Bonsai Age: 2
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 23 times
- treeman
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 2836
- Joined: August 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm
- Favorite Species: any
- Bonsai Age: 25
- Location: melbourne
- Has thanked: 28 times
- Been thanked: 571 times
Re: Soil Mix
Pine bark USES N as it breaks down. It contains very little N itself. To use non-composted pb, it needs to be aged first to remove toxins. 6 weeks moist in a heap. Hot composting with Urea and Fe (most commercial bark based p/mixes) increases CEC and reduces N drawdown. So you may need to use a bit more N to get the same results from aged bark. With proper feeding you can grow high quality plants in it.Brekel wrote: ↑May 22nd, 2020, 12:44 pmHi Shibui - just wondering, is that regular pine bark or composted pine bark?
I've read mixed opinions: Some say non-composted would draw down the nitrogen too much, and some say that because it decomposes so slowly and re-releases N as it breaks down that effectively it doesn't matter
Down in Tassie a lot of "common" soil components are hard to come by, but non-composted pinebark in various grades is readily available, as is propogating sand.
Thanks,
Brett.
Mike
- Brekel
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 117
- Joined: October 31st, 2016, 1:20 pm
- Favorite Species: Tas natives
- Bonsai Age: 2
- Location: Hobart
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 52 times
Re: Soil Mix
Thanks Mike, appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share
Nothofagus-Melaleuca-Leptospermum-Lagarostrobos-Cedrus-Acer
-
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 7653
- Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
- Favorite Species: trident maple
- Bonsai Age: 41
- Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC
- Location: Yackandandah
- Has thanked: 65 times
- Been thanked: 1399 times
- Contact:
Re: Soil Mix
All that Mike said.
The 3-6mm pine bark has been composted before use in the mix. You still need to add more slow release N and more fertiliser at potting up to counteract the continuing breakdown of organic components in potting mix.
Completely inorganic mixes do not have that problem of nitrogen draw down but most also have a very low CEC so cannot hold nutrients. Inorganic mix will need more regular application of fertiliser to keep the plants well fed.
Potting mix is a science. Making your own sounds simple but there's a lot more to it than just mixing components together.
The 3-6mm pine bark has been composted before use in the mix. You still need to add more slow release N and more fertiliser at potting up to counteract the continuing breakdown of organic components in potting mix.
Completely inorganic mixes do not have that problem of nitrogen draw down but most also have a very low CEC so cannot hold nutrients. Inorganic mix will need more regular application of fertiliser to keep the plants well fed.
Potting mix is a science. Making your own sounds simple but there's a lot more to it than just mixing components together.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- kcpoole
- Perpetual Learner
- Posts: 12272
- Joined: November 12th, 2008, 4:02 pm
- Favorite Species: Maple
- Bonsai Age: 15
- Bonsai Club: the School Of Bonsai
- Location: Western Sydney, NSW, Australia
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 84 times
- Contact:
Re: Soil Mix
That is why I use Zeolite 20% in my own "Ken's Mix" Zeolite does not break down at all where organics do soshibui wrote: ↑May 22nd, 2020, 5:05 pm Completely inorganic mixes do not have that problem of nitrogen draw down but most also have a very low CEC so cannot hold nutrients. Inorganic mix will need more regular application of fertiliser to keep the plants well fed.
Potting mix is a science. Making your own sounds simple but there's a lot more to it than just mixing components together.
http://www.cmzeolites.com.au/chem advises that CM zeolite has a CEC of 147
From below site we see that organic matter is 200 - 400
https://www.smart-fertilizer.com/articl ... -capacity/
. ."CEC, an abbreviation for Cation Exchange Capacity, refers to the amount of negative charges available on the surface of soil particles.
It gives an indication of the potential of the soil to hold plant nutrients, by estimating the capacity of the soil to retain cations, which are positively-charged substances.
Therefore, the CEC of the soil directly affects the amount and frequency of fertilizer application
with inorganic mixes, chuck in some zeolite to hold the ferts in a readily available form.
Ken
Check out our Wiki for awesome bonsai information www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
What is Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Bonsai
What should I do now? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index.php?title=Newbie
How do I grow a Bonsai? http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _a_Bonsai?
Visit a Bonsai nursery to see some real nice trees http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Nurseries
- Brekel
- Aussie Bonsai Fan
- Posts: 117
- Joined: October 31st, 2016, 1:20 pm
- Favorite Species: Tas natives
- Bonsai Age: 2
- Location: Hobart
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 52 times
Re: Soil Mix
Ive looked up the CEC ranges of different media.
Maybe for nothing though as Zeolite seems to be about the only commonly used inorganic media I can source locally down here (other than coarse sand and gravel - but the coarse sand has lots of fines in it).
If anyone has found diatomite/pumice/etc in Tassie I'd be interested to hear where. Getting bags shipped down costs more than the products themselves
Maybe for nothing though as Zeolite seems to be about the only commonly used inorganic media I can source locally down here (other than coarse sand and gravel - but the coarse sand has lots of fines in it).
If anyone has found diatomite/pumice/etc in Tassie I'd be interested to hear where. Getting bags shipped down costs more than the products themselves
Nothofagus-Melaleuca-Leptospermum-Lagarostrobos-Cedrus-Acer