Hornbeam pics for Brett

[craigw60]

Hi Jow.
I really think stewartia would struggle in Melbourne. I live in Olinda which is around 6-8 degrees cooler and I have mine in the shade of a big beech tree.
Just down the road from me is a public garden called Pirianda there are stewartia of both species growing there. There is no harm in trying though and I think Yamina rare plant do stock them.
Craig

[Mojo Moyogi]

Jow, Craig is right, Stewartia is off the menu in Melbourne unless you like the desicated look......you must have seen a few in Japan, do they use them for shohin? I have only seen large Stewartias in albums.

My advice, you could relocate into the hills like I did (Craig too, I think) for bonsai reasons. The humidity and lower nightime temperatures in the mountains are great for our trees and the fact that even when it does get into the high 30s, the temperature only peaks for an hour or two, instead of the 7 hour swelter from midday to 7pm that I remember so fondly in Melbourne.

Oh yeah, it rains here too. Lots.

Cheers
Mojo Moyogi

[craigw60]

Hi Mojo,
The move to the hills have for the most part been beneficial but there have been some upsets. I had to part with my melaleucas they hated it from the word go, that was very upsetting as they form the basis of my native collection. Another casualty was a very fine angophora which I ended up swapping with Brian sampson for a corked black pine. I think I saw an image of that tree at the north west club show. I also had a really big pj fig almost a 2 man tree while I can grow figs here the growing season is very short. I swapped this tree for the big blue atlas cedar which loves life in the hills. The up side is of course all the lovely cool climate plants which flourish. The Vanners gave me a group of fagus crenata which I dismantled and have now got growing in the ground a couple of them will make very fine bonsai. I had an incident with a rabbit this spring it appears they love to eat beech trees happily for me they also love poison bye bye rabbit.
Craig

[Jow]

Thanks for that re: stewartia. Pretty much confirmed my suspicions..

[Bretts]

Can we go back to talking about hornbeams again now

[craigw60]

Hi Brett,
Was flicking through the latest bonsai focus this morning and there is a guy working on Carpinus coreana. Have had any experience of this one and are they around in Australia ?
Craig

[Bretts]

Korean hornbeam is often spelt two different ways Carpinus koreana and Carpinus coreana. Some may think they are different I guess I can't be so sure if they are or which spelling is correct. Then others will say that Korean Hornbeam is Carpinus turczaninowii. So there seems to be alot of confusion out there.


I am growing them from seed "Misho bonsai seeds" which was spelt as Carpinus Koreana. Have some a few years old and some in their second year. Very slow growers so I doubt I will have much but shohin when my time is over
Because of the Autumn colour of Rays C. carolina this is what I thought his was as I forgot the name he used by the time I got home.
That was after reading this from Brent Waltson about Carpinus coreana (Korean Hornbeam)

In our opinion the finest hornbeam for smaller bonsai. The tiny pleated leaves reduce easily to under 1 inch and it attains a zig-zag twiggy character after only a year in a bonsai pot. The real treat is in the fall when the leaves turn red, yellow and orange, not diffusely but in stripes. We have seen leaves where one half of the leaf separated by the midvein was red and the other half yellow or orange. The striping will also occur between the side veins of the leaves.

That is why I thought this C. caorlina from ray was Korean Hornbeam

hornbeam bonsai firey jimFG (3).jpg

hornbeam bonsai firey jimFG (4).jpg

I haven't worked these guys out that well yet Craig as this was how I got my first one off Ray and I haven't seen the great autumn colour since as I am always battling leaf burn. I am now moving onto rain water with them after reading the write up from Walter Pall in Bonsai Today about Hornbeam Care where he states that if you have them in a free draining mix you should use rain water as they are that sensitive to salt. As Walter is a Keep it simple kind of guy I think this is worth a try.
Also the symptoms of mature leaves burning with fresh leaves healthy also points towards salt affliction.
Lately as I said I have found that Carpinus cordata is the only other hornbeam said to have the variation in the autumn colour as the C. coreana does.
Although some people who grow Carpinus coreana claim to have Autumn colour like I have shown above I am yet to have anyone show such variation.

Oh and as was mentioned above Carpinus seed is easily imported into the country. If it is non-comercial quantity you don't even need any paper work.
The Carpinus seed I imported germinated mid winter while I had it in warm stratification and I spent the winter nursing them through.
Just checked what seeds exactly I got from Misho Bonsai seeds and found even there it is confusing
They call both of these species by the same common name
Carpinus Turczaninowii - Korean hornbeam
Carpinus Koreana - Korean hornbeam

I am currenty trying to germinate C. orientalis. They are collecting some amasing specimens in Croatia and Walter is very impressed with the species as bonsai. I think they will be great as they are more heat and drought tolerant than the other hornbeams.
There will be a forrest of them included in the Canberra 100 forrest project that is conected to the national collection.

[Jow]

I guess as i side tracked the discussion with Stewartias i guess i should get it back on track....

I don't grow hornbeams, but would like to have a nice one (hint, hint).
I saw a few on my travels in Japan and some of you may recognise the one below that i found in a small family nursery that was somewhat off the beaten path during a road trip.

hornbeam1.jpg

The tree as it appeared in Bonsai Focus.

hornbeam2.jpg

The tree's owners wife next to the tree for scale.

hornbeam3.jpg

Close up of the base.

Its a great tree and really interesting in the flesh tracing how the trunks move and how the branches are placed within the clump.

[Bretts]

Thanks Jow that is a nice one. I think it shows of the hornbeam character well. Do you know what it is that bark is definatly not smooth
Is there much about it in the magazine. Looks like there are a couple of issues I might have to get of Leigh.

[craigw60]

Hmm,
So the Korean rock hornbeam has many handles and variations in all the Kokufu albums it is always called Turczaninovii. This orientalis one sounds good I grow many plants from that part of the world in my garden and they seem to do very well here. How many species are there in this genus ?
I went for a walk this morning and took a look at the laxiflora which I planted in a garden up here many years ago. It is laden with seed all still very green would guess at least another 6 weeks to ripen it. I have never seen it so heavy with seed mst be the cool summer we have had

[Bretts]

Thats another great picture Craig!
There are heaps of carpinus varieties "The 30-40 species occur across much of the north temperate regions, with the greatest number of species in east Asia, particularly China. Only two species occur in Europe, and only one in eastern North America."
Then there are the hybrids.
Not a carpinus per say but how about a Hornbeam maple Acer carpinifolium

Here is Walter working on an Oriental Hornbeam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km8ZDnPCqDQ

It's kinda hard to look at these ones when you are growing from seed

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bonsa ... -t2150.htm
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bonsa ... t=hornbeam

[craigw60]

I can understand the temptation to rip these plants out of the forest but its not something I could ever do. I am all in favour of collecting weed species but I feel native flora should be left alone. There is however no doubt these plants will make incredible bonsai. I had no idea Carpinus had so many species. Are there any from the dryer parts of China the sort of climate you would find chinese elms in ?
Craig

[Bretts]

I had considered that myself Craig. Especially after I found this species is included in the 100 forests as trees included in that are for a reason often as an endangered species? I haven't had that one answered yet but I have been in contact with the people doing this after some seed and they seem to be people that would need to be doing the right thing.
They are amazing non the less. As Ray is interested in hornbeam he wants some of this seed of me so between us we should have some germinated by next season. Not sure how many years it will be before he would have stock though.
Might be one for Clinton

[craigw60]

Hi Brett,
I would be quite happy to send you as much Laxiflora seed as you want the tree is laden and there is more than I would ever need. I have in the past sown seed from this tree and the germination rate has been quite small, but this year may be the one as we have had such a great wet summer which should increase the viability. Also my seed raising techniques are a bit haphazard I tend to just sow it when its ripe and hope for the best maybe a chilling period increase the viability.
Craig

[Bretts]

That would be great Craig The usual for hornbeam seed is about 30 days warm then 60 days cold. As I said the two times I got seed from Misho Bonsai they germinated in the warm period which is said can happen with fresh carpinus seed. Plus I guess we are opposite seasons to them so maybe that was it.
I got orientalis last season (very small) and they where several years old they haven't germinated but I still have them in case they come out next season. I have fresh orientalis coming soon. One lot from the same place they got the seed for the 100 Forests
http://b-and-t-world-seeds.com/
and some from the guys ripping them out of the mountains in Croatia
It will be great to see how yours go.
I will PM you
Thanks