Trident maple - help needed.

[lennard]

I got this Maple from a lady who grow quite a few of these in the garden. Each year she dug them up, reduce the roots and do the chops to get taper on the trees.

This is the tree in spring:

virt apex.jpg

The red indicated a latent bud that could be the new leader. The yellow a branch that can be bend down.

This is the tree now. The indicated bud grew and I worked the wound off to the growth.

Dsc_0080.jpg

Any advice on where to go with this one?

Lennard

[Kyushu Danji]

I love the shape of this tree. I'm at a similar stage with some of my trees, and have an equally hard time trying to work out where to go with it. I know thats not much help, but good luck mate

[shibui]

Wire bases of new leader and chosen branches to shape, feed and water well and let everything grow freely for the season (remove wire after a month or so before it marks bark too bad. In winter cut most new growth back to first or second node and repeat the following year. (if any branches are getting too thick before the end of summer cut them back sooner) I get much better branches and leaders in the long run by cutting back hard like thus rather than trying to grow a new branch to full length in one or 2 seasons.

[lennard]

Wire bases of new leader and chosen branches to shape, feed and water well and let everything grow freely for the season (remove wire after a month or so before it marks bark too bad. In winter cut most new growth back to first or second node and repeat the following year. (if any branches are getting too thick before the end of summer cut them back sooner) I get much better branches and leaders in the long run by cutting back hard like thus rather than trying to grow a new branch to full length in one or 2 seasons.

Would it be alright to slippot in a wider but still shallow growing pot now. Here in RSA we still have about 3-4 months of the growing season left.

I believe the tree still has a long way to go and I don't like planting my trees in small pots too soon?

Lennard

[Aussie_Bonsai]

do u no how old this maple is, because i wana know how long its gona take my trident seedlings to get to this state...

cheers
Ben

[shibui]

Aussie, How long it will take depends on so many things. I grow trunks like this in 3-5 years but not all work out so well. Always grow a few more than you need to allow for crook ones.

[Aussie_Bonsai]

okay, thanks. i have plenty of seedling so even if i do get some bad ones, i'll still have enough for my needs.

regards,
Ben

[MattA]

Wire bases of new leader and chosen branches to shape, feed and water well and let everything grow freely for the season (remove wire after a month or so before it marks bark too bad. In winter cut most new growth back to first or second node and repeat the following year. (if any branches are getting too thick before the end of summer cut them back sooner) I get much better branches and leaders in the long run by cutting back hard like thus rather than trying to grow a new branch to full length in one or 2 seasons.

Would it be alright to slippot in a wider but still shallow growing pot now. Here in RSA we still have about 3-4 months of the growing season left.

I believe the tree still has a long way to go and I don't like planting my trees in small pots too soon?

Lennard

Hey Lennard,

You have a similar growing period left as me, personally I would go ahead & slip pot it, trying to disturb the roots as little as possible. While still in development its a good idea to give your trees as much root run as possible, this has 2 effects... 1/ more growth & thickening of branchs etc & 2/ strongly growing roots will also increase the flare at the base of the trunk, pulling that beast out even wider.

Definitely a shallow wide pot, you dont want heavy downward roots they contribute nothing to flare.

What size pot is it currently in?

Matt

Edit: spelling

[lennard]

do u no how old this maple is, because i wana know how long its gona take my trident seedlings to get to this state...

cheers
Ben

The tree is five years old. As i have mentioned she dug it up and chopped it every spring.

Lennard

[lennard]

What size pot is it currently in?

Matt

Edit: spelling

Thanks for the reply Matt.

The pot(plastic) has a diameter of 22cm and the depth of the soil is about 6cm.

The base of the tree is at it's widest 15 cm.

I have also noticed that the tree is planted in an almost pure organic(composted pine bark) mix.

Lennard

[MattA]

Thanks for the reply Matt.

The pot(plastic) has a diameter of 22cm and the depth of the soil is about 6cm.

The base of the tree is at it's widest 15 cm.

I have also noticed that the tree is planted in an almost pure organic(composted pine bark) mix.

Lennard

Your welcome Lennard, that is one nice little tree to be.

I would go with a pot twice the diameter but the same depth. The soil you mention is not what most would use for bonsai but thats irrelevant. If it works (which it is) then theres nothing wrong with it, however, when you slip pot it you will need to use a soil mix that is similar in its draining & water holding properties. If there is a big difference you could end up with either the central mass staying too wet or vice versa.. not a good situation. You could gently tease out the roots if not too congested & change most of the soil to your own mix if it is greatly different to the current one. You will have to give it a bit more protection for a week or 2 but wont majorly slow it up.

I repot when I can, 2weeks ago I repotted my mentors junipers and a Ginkgo forest(defoliating at the same time). The Juni's got a light trim yesterday (up to 4" of growth since potting) and the Ginkgo's are throwing new buds everywhere, even lots of back buds. I also repotted his olive yesterday, had to cut some major roots out but dont expect any problems.

Aftercare is crucial when doing root work outside of the 'proper' season but just because its not the accepted time to be doing it doesnt mean you should let the tree slow down or suffer by not doing it.

Look forward to seeing this fatboy grow into your plan.

Matt

[lennard]

The tree grew very well this season. I cut it back and also defoliated the tree to see what was going on.

november 2012.jpg

Novem 2012 a.jpg

Any advice on the branches and apex will be appreciated.

Lennard

[lennard]

I have mostly let my maple stumps grow freely this year after the defoliation in November.

Walter Pall recommend to cut of all the sacrifice growth now in autumn before the leaves fall and the trees go bare.

Walter is sick now so I can not ask him why he is recommending this.

Anyone here recommending it?

Lennard

[shibui]

I'm not sure of Walter's reasoning but it could be connected with the trees putting on a final burst of growth before dormancy. Many will remember being told to keep a close watch on wires 'because trees thicken quicker in autumn' Not sure if this IS correct but if it is, it is probable that healing will be quicker with less dieback around the cuts.
I often see the exposed cambium around larger cuts dry out and die back when reduction cuts made in winter are not sealed. Perhaps this is less of a problem with autumn pruning????

Certainly worth trying and recording results Lennard.

[lennard]

I'm not sure of Walter's reasoning but it could be connected with the trees putting on a final burst of growth before dormancy. Many will remember being told to keep a close watch on wires 'because trees thicken quicker in autumn' Not sure if this IS correct but if it is, it is probable that healing will be quicker with less dieback around the cuts.
I often see the exposed cambium around larger cuts dry out and die back when reduction cuts made in winter are not sealed. Perhaps this is less of a problem with autumn pruning????

Certainly worth trying and recording results Lennard.

Thanks for the reply.

I just posted this reply on IBC:

"I think I did not understand it because our autumn here in Rustenburg, South Africa is very short. The Maple trees here are just shutting down growth(stopped sending out new growth but the leaves are still green) even with temperatures of 23 degrees Celsius at night going up in daytime to 32 degrees Celsius. The trees will only start to change color in early June and bud out again in September. If I cut back all the strong growths now I will probably get new weaker buds growing?

If I read the growing season of Maples correctly it seems that dormancy/not sending out new growth is triggered by daylight length and not temperature so much?

I do have one that I can cut back to see how it reacts in my conditions."

I have experienced it with my Celtis, Maple and Acacia that the trees that were not recently worked on are shutting down new growth. Trees that were cut back or defoliated recently are still growing strong.

It would be better to let the trees alone for now because I will have stronger growth in spring when I cut them back then?

Lennard