Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

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Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by pureheart »

Hello friends, I hope all my fellow Victorians are keeping strong and entertained! I’m surely struggling but we have to keep going!
Question... I was looking at my cedar and I’m now starting to notice all the defects just in general of all the trees I have and trying to live with it or doing something about it...
as per attached photos there are few bar branches on this tree and I don’t know if this is ok giving that it is an evergreen and you won’t be really be able to see it as much as you would on a deciduous tree...or instead I should address and remove...

It’s a big decision as this is one of my favourite and more refined trees so I don’t want to make a mistake and mess it up and learn...
I’ve noticed the presence of bar branches or branches growing from same spot or very close to each other on other evergreen trees (styled from much more experienced people) so I’m questioning of this is something considered ok for the viewer as it is not as distracting as on deciduous trees...

Can you please share your opinion and am I totally off track here?

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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by shibui »

It is better not to have bar branches if possible, even if they are hidden by foliage. 2 branches will thicken the trunk and eventually give reverse taper. Fortunately cedar are slow to thicken so you can get away with it for many years.
You may be able to take some of them off without unduly affecting the design of the tree. I think we tend to start out with way more branches than really needed. As ramification increases they become crowded. Removing some early on will allow the better placed ones to develop better and fill the spaces. Yours does seem to be pretty full at the moment.
However, don't just slavishly remove all bar branches. I think you are correct that evergreen foliage hides the distraction so it is not a visual problem. If removing one will leave a big hole that can't be filled with a nearby branch it should be retained.
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by MJL »

Cool tree! I can see why you wold take care....

It's hard to tell but I imagine there would be/must be some bar branches that could be removed without much visual impact and/or bending other branches into or to close gaps from removed bars. Even if not... I think you might find that any space created by removed some bars will create more definition (by the fact there is more negative space) and an even more exciting tree.

Perhaps think about flattening it out too - at the top but throughout - I sit firmly in the camp of loving the horizontal lines of some cedars. That said - there are photo and approaches for more rounded trees too. Whatever floats your inspiration boat.

No need to rush either, I reckon - I would not remove the bars for the sake of it ... nor race to a decision. I am often surprised how I come to the answer after much consideration ....

Also note - might sound weird (and may not work) but try to strike the bars as cuttings when you do take them off. There are little trees in those branches :-)
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by pureheart »

shibui wrote: August 26th, 2020, 8:59 pm It is better not to have bar branches if possible, even if they are hidden by foliage. 2 branches will thicken the trunk and eventually give reverse taper. Fortunately cedar are slow to thicken so you can get away with it for many years.
You may be able to take some of them off without unduly affecting the design of the tree. I think we tend to start out with way more branches than really needed. As ramification increases they become crowded. Removing some early on will allow the better placed ones to develop better and fill the spaces. Yours does seem to be pretty full at the moment.
However, don't just slavishly remove all bar branches. I think you are correct that evergreen foliage hides the distraction so it is not a visual problem. If removing one will leave a big hole that can't be filled with a nearby branch it should be retained.
Thank you, I will look at the tree until it comes clear to me what to remove... in terms of removing do I just cut flush the branch or create a Jin? I'm thinking I should just cut as the space left will eventually be partially filled by another branch... does that make sense?
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by pureheart »

MJL wrote: August 26th, 2020, 9:38 pm Cool tree! I can see why you wold take care....

It's hard to tell but I imagine there would be/must be some bar branches that could be removed without much visual impact and/or bending other branches into or to close gaps from removed bars. Even if not... I think you might find that any space created by removed some bars will create more definition (by the fact there is more negative space) and an even more exciting tree.

Perhaps think about flattening it out too - at the top but throughout - I sit firmly in the camp of loving the horizontal lines of some cedars. That said - there are photo and approaches for more rounded trees too. Whatever floats your inspiration boat.

No need to rush either, I reckon - I would not remove the bars for the sake of it ... nor race to a decision. I am often surprised how I come to the answer after much consideration ....

Also note - might sound weird (and may not work) but try to strike the bars as cuttings when you do take them off. There are little trees in those branches :-)
Thanks I will gradually remove the branches as I progress on this tree, I think I've identified one that could go now...need to find the courage and do it :fc: ... regarding the horizontal lines I know all the debate about it but I'm on the classic branch down style at least for this tree, don't really enjoy the natural form of the tree... cutting yes I actually removed a branch already 4 months ago and it is in a pot with some other juniper cuttings... we will see if it survives and strikes roots! will update the thread :)
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by tgward »

drape and hide the possible removals with a neutral coloured tea towel or some such--- could show you a better quality tree
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by GavinG »

x2. Definitely cover branches first, to see what the effect is before you cut.

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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by pureheart »

will definitely do that...
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by pureheart »

Can anyone share their opinion on cutting the branches? Jin or cut flush?
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by greg27 »

pureheart wrote: August 28th, 2020, 11:32 am Can anyone share their opinion on cutting the branches? Jin or cut flush?
Start with a jin; if you don't like it you can always cut flush later.
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by shibui »

It often depends on whether the jin can be seen. If it can't be seen or does not add to the picture there's no point having a jin so cut flush. I don't think these have issues with dying back further like maples sometimes do.
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by pureheart »

I found some courage and there you go...

What do you think???

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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by pureheart »

And with a couple of adjustments...

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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by PWC »

I like it , shows off the trunk line. :yes:
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Re: Lebanon Cedar and bar branches...

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

Yep..that looks great! :yes:
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