Future Big black pine

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beanwagon
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Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

I have been training/growing this jbp since 2016. All i have really done is let it grow and trim side branches that are blocking sunlight for the lower branches.

2016
Snapchat-2644920694044420897.jpg
Today
Screenshot_20210713-151924_Gallery.jpg
I was after some design suggestions/advice. I have trained branch number 1 to be the future leader but now i am leaning towards wiring branch number 2 to be the new leader.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

Screenshot_20210713-151256_Gallery.jpg
In late winter/early spring im going to repot into a larger pot and let it grow for another 5 years.
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shibui
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by shibui »

You have done great job growing this one. Far too many pines end up with thick but long, bare trunks and branches. Plenty of viable options to develop with this one.
Trunk 1 has more interest with the bends as it is but I think that converting it to the leader would lose all the thick trunk you have grown and the new trunk line would be basically straight.
Using 2 would allow some of that great trunk to be used. I was concerned that 2 had nowhere to cut back to but a closer look shows a couple of very small shoots down low - ideal places to continue the crazy angles the chop will give. There may even be shoots on the main trunk that could be used for low branches?
One possible concern with using 2 is the abrupt angle change - close to 90 deg from the main trunk. It is probably possible to soften the appearance by rotating the tree slightly.

On the available evidence I'd probably use option 2 but bear in mind I can't see all the aspects of the trunk in a couple of photos and only guessing at scale.
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beanwagon
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

shibui wrote: July 13th, 2021, 6:05 pm You have done great job growing this one. Far too many pines end up with thick but long, bare trunks and branches. Plenty of viable options to develop with this one.
Trunk 1 has more interest with the bends as it is but I think that converting it to the leader would lose all the thick trunk you have grown and the new trunk line would be basically straight.
Using 2 would allow some of that great trunk to be used. I was concerned that 2 had nowhere to cut back to but a closer look shows a couple of very small shoots down low - ideal places to continue the crazy angles the chop will give. There may even be shoots on the main trunk that could be used for low branches?
One possible concern with using 2 is the abrupt angle change - close to 90 deg from the main trunk. It is probably possible to soften the appearance by rotating the tree slightly.

On the available evidence I'd probably use option 2 but bear in mind I can't see all the aspects of the trunk in a couple of photos and only guessing at scale.
Cheers! I appreciate the feedback. I had the same thoughts in regards to using number 2 to utilize more of the trunk. It is still reasonably flexible so i might be able to wire some movement into it/ change the angle

There are a couple branches on the opposite side which would make a nice 1st lower branch on the bend after tbe trunk chop
Screenshot_20210713-184455_Gallery.jpg
I will play around with planting angle when i repot.

I was thinking i would try and air layer #1 off but i dont think it woukd be more hassle than its worth.
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Ryceman3
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by Ryceman3 »

Looking at that last shot, and with only one pic for reference I think #2 seems like the option I’d be leaning towards too. From the shot you show, I’d look at trying to bend that leader forward and maybe left a bit to help with flow and transition from the eventual chop. Definitely need to develop and utilise those little shoots on that leader.
It’s a nice looking base, hopefully whatever you go with the next stage adds to the hard work you’ve already put in. Nice work, not enough of this kind of development happening.
:yes:

EDIT: sorry, I wrote my response as you posted above … so my comments refer to your original post not the last one (to avoid confusion) :beer:
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

Ryceman3 wrote: July 13th, 2021, 6:55 pm Looking at that last shot, and with only one pic for reference I think #2 seems like the option I’d be leaning towards too. From the shot you show, I’d look at trying to bend that leader forward and maybe left a bit to help with flow and transition from the eventual chop. Definitely need to develop and utilise those little shoots on that leader.
It’s a nice looking base, hopefully whatever you go with the next stage adds to the hard work you’ve already put in. Nice work, not enough of this kind of development happening.
:yes:

EDIT: sorry, I wrote my response as you posted above … so my comments refer to your original post not the last one (to avoid confusion) :beer:
Cheers! I agree a lot of people get impatient. I have a smaller ROR pine that i play around experiment with when i get itchy fingers.

Surely some heavy bonsai wire is an essential purchase during lockdown.
beanwagon
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

Trunk as if today
Screenshot_20220516-170826_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20220516-170815_Gallery.jpg
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Ryceman3
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by Ryceman3 »

That’s looking promising. How is the budding on the potential leader (near your thumb in last pic)?
It’s looking a little bare but hard to tell properly in the photo. If you can encourage more budding/nurture any buds already there I think you’ll be able to develop something very special from here.
:yes:
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by tgooboon »

The option of keeping the smaller trunk #2 with the improved movement is good.

My view is remove the major trunk a bit higher which already has great taper to this point and keep at least 2 good options. Keep #2 and also try and develop a bud slightly higher and create another leader like in the picture.

In another 1-3 years you can decide which is the best.
JBP slightly taller option.png
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beanwagon
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

Ryceman3 wrote: May 17th, 2022, 9:03 am That’s looking promising. How is the budding on the potential leader (near your thumb in last pic)?
It’s looking a little bare but hard to tell properly in the photo. If you can encourage more budding/nurture any buds already there I think you’ll be able to develop something very special from here.
:yes:
There are not a huge amount of backbuds on this potential leader just yet but I'm confident I could force them.
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

tgooboon wrote: May 17th, 2022, 9:30 am The option of keeping the smaller trunk #2 with the improved movement is good.

My view is remove the major trunk a bit higher which already has great taper to this point and keep at least 2 good options. Keep #2 and also try and develop a bud slightly higher and create another leader like in the picture.

In another 1-3 years you can decide which is the best.
JBP slightly taller option.png
Luckily for me there are buds all up the main trunk so I do have options.

The idea you suggested is one of the two main ideas I'm weighing up.

When I eventually do trunk chop this I had planned to do it in stages. The 1st chop should redistribute energy to the lower buds. I was going to choose from there.

I think I'm still looking at least another 10 years of building the structure of this then 5 for development.

I barely know what I am doing. So I've been learning along the way.
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

My other option was to continue to grow out the leader with movement at the base and then use on of these two small branches as the future leader.
Screenshot_20220517-105502_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20220517-105514_Gallery.jpg
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beanwagon
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by beanwagon »

The year has gotten away from me so today was the day to do some work on this pine.

I decided to cut the sacrifice branches and to begin the journey into a bonsai pot.

I left many options on this to decided on a design later down the road.

I also was able to get an airlayer to root after a few years of trying unsuccessfully.

Now to challenge of keeping both alive
All feedback and suggestions welcome.

Screenshot_20230821_153217.jpg
Screenshot_20230821_153205.jpg
Screenshot_20230821_153149.jpg
Screenshot_20230821_153119.jpg
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Re: Future Big black pine

Post by badabing888 »

Nice material!

Has it always been pot grown only?

How many years old is it ? 2016 -> 2023 + a few years?
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