Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Forum for discussion of Pines, Junipers, Cedar etc as bonsai.
Post Reply
User avatar
benbonsai
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 438
Joined: October 2nd, 2016, 5:13 pm
Favorite Species: Juniper
Bonsai Age: 7
Location: Lake Macquarie, Newcastle NSW
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by benbonsai »

So I have had this semi cascade Squamata growing for around 5 or 6 years now. It hasn’t been a tree that I love or gave a lot of attention. It was rushed into a pot and really jammed in there and required frequent repotting each year as it became root bound. It has now been 2 or 3 years since a repot and it was starting to suffer. So today as I was repotting I realized there were a couple nice tap roots that would work well over a rock and remembered I had a couple good rocks so I have decided to do a root over rock situation. This is the first time I have attempted this. Unfortunately in my haste I didn’t document the process at all, but I have a before and after photo.

The soil is currently completely covering the rock so the roots can extend down below the rock in the next couple years and so the tree can get some good health back.
Over the next couple years I will slowly expose more and more of the rock (I think that’s how it’s done) :lost: ??
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Slow and steady wins the race
User avatar
BonsaiBobbie
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 217
Joined: January 17th, 2022, 12:52 pm
Favorite Species: No Luck Leptospermum, Could be Kunzea
Bonsai Age: 3
Bonsai Club: Sydney City Bonsai Club
Location: Sydney City
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

I have one as well.

Not the same issues / driver as yours. Simply I didn't like it how it was, and had a rock that seemed to work well with it.

For mine, I drilled and araldited some wires into the rock to hold the plant in place (it is on the side of the rock, on a small ledge).

I used raffia to tie the roots around the rock, and hold in the places that I wanted.

For me, I wasn't sure if I was going to rely on some sort of muck where it is fixed to the rock, and / or rely on bottom feeding once it gets to that stage.

Certainly interested in hearing others thoughts. No photos either.
--
No idea what I am doing…
beanwagon
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 135
Joined: June 20th, 2015, 11:26 pm
Bonsai Age: 0
Location: sydney
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 16 times
Contact:

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by beanwagon »

I have one that I started a few years ago. The roots do thicken up and clasp the rock if you let it grow unchecked for a few seasons. Contrary to what some told me online

I hope I'm not hijacking your thread with my picks

I have re wrapped the roots to grow another few seasons and have since restyled the top (no current photos)

In hindsight I would have chosen a better/larger rock.

Photos below are in reverse order. Newest progression to older.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
shibui
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 7653
Joined: August 22nd, 2009, 8:41 pm
Favorite Species: trident maple
Bonsai Age: 41
Bonsai Club: Albury/Wodonga; BSV; Canberra; VNBC
Location: Yackandandah
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 1399 times
Contact:

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by shibui »

There's no real need to uncover roots slowly. Provided the root tips are in soil the rest of the root will still grow and thicken as water/nutrient and food passes back and forth from roots tips to foliage.
The only reasons for covering with soil that I can see are:
a. To encourage more of the shorter roots to grow further down the rock to the soil below. Any growing root tips that are exposed to dry air will die but there's probably way more roots than needed anyway.
b. Soil may put some pressure on the roots to hold them closer to the rock until they harden and set in place.
http://shibuibonsai.com.au/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
benbonsai
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 438
Joined: October 2nd, 2016, 5:13 pm
Favorite Species: Juniper
Bonsai Age: 7
Location: Lake Macquarie, Newcastle NSW
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by benbonsai »

beanwagon wrote: June 14th, 2022, 4:49 pm I have one that I started a few years ago. The roots do thicken up and clasp the rock if you let it grow unchecked for a few seasons. Contrary to what some told me online

I hope I'm not hijacking your thread with my picks

I have re wrapped the roots to grow another few seasons and have since restyled the top (no current photos)

In hindsight I would have chosen a better/larger rock.

Photos below are in reverse order. Newest progression to older.
No problem at all, thanks for providing some. I encourage others to post there pics.
Yours is massive. Awesome tree.

I used some wire to keep the roots close to the rock.
Slow and steady wins the race
User avatar
benbonsai
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 438
Joined: October 2nd, 2016, 5:13 pm
Favorite Species: Juniper
Bonsai Age: 7
Location: Lake Macquarie, Newcastle NSW
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by benbonsai »

shibui wrote: June 14th, 2022, 6:08 pm There's no real need to uncover roots slowly. Provided the root tips are in soil the rest of the root will still grow and thicken as water/nutrient and food passes back and forth from roots tips to foliage.
The only reasons for covering with soil that I can see are:
a. To encourage more of the shorter roots to grow further down the rock to the soil below. Any growing root tips that are exposed to dry air will die but there's probably way more roots than needed anyway.
b. Soil may put some pressure on the roots to hold them closer to the rock until they harden and set in place.
Thanks for the input shibui. As always the most knowledgeable. I had to keep the soil around the rock as the roots didn’t quite reach the bottom yet. Plus the tree wasn’t too healthy so I’d rather not kill too much off just yet.
Slow and steady wins the race
beanwagon
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 135
Joined: June 20th, 2015, 11:26 pm
Bonsai Age: 0
Location: sydney
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 16 times
Contact:

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by beanwagon »

benbonsai wrote: June 14th, 2022, 7:02 pm
beanwagon wrote: June 14th, 2022, 4:49 pm I have one that I started a few years ago. The roots do thicken up and clasp the rock if you let it grow unchecked for a few seasons. Contrary to what some told me online

I hope I'm not hijacking your thread with my picks

I have re wrapped the roots to grow another few seasons and have since restyled the top (no current photos)

In hindsight I would have chosen a better/larger rock.

Photos below are in reverse order. Newest progression to older.
No problem at all, thanks for providing some. I encourage others to post there pics.
Yours is massive. Awesome tree.

I used some wire to keep the roots close to the rock.
Cheers! I'll get some updated pictures soon. These seem to grow fairly rapidly in our climate if put into a large pot, fed a lot and left to grow.
User avatar
BonsaiBobbie
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 217
Joined: January 17th, 2022, 12:52 pm
Favorite Species: No Luck Leptospermum, Could be Kunzea
Bonsai Age: 3
Bonsai Club: Sydney City Bonsai Club
Location: Sydney City
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

For the sake of the thread, I thought I'd add pics of mine.

The rock takes up most of the pot, so hopefully a good size, relative to the plant.

Ok. Not much to look at, and I didn't really like how it was before (it is a good test of both styling and planning).

I'll let it grow and when it comes time to repot, I'll see where it is up to.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
--
No idea what I am doing…
User avatar
benbonsai
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 438
Joined: October 2nd, 2016, 5:13 pm
Favorite Species: Juniper
Bonsai Age: 7
Location: Lake Macquarie, Newcastle NSW
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by benbonsai »

Thanks for sharing

Anyone else want to share their root over rock juniper projects?
Slow and steady wins the race
User avatar
BonsaiBobbie
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 217
Joined: January 17th, 2022, 12:52 pm
Favorite Species: No Luck Leptospermum, Could be Kunzea
Bonsai Age: 3
Bonsai Club: Sydney City Bonsai Club
Location: Sydney City
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

Hopefully I am not hijacking this thread, but I thought it better to keep together…

I have been thinking about my juniper with spring coming along.

Really it is a case of fighting trying not to do something, but also understanding better what I can do with it with time.

I’m wondering about balancing what is happening above the ground and below giving the slow growing nature of the plant.

Currently the pot getting in the way of “pulling in” the foliage closer to the rock once I remove the soil.

I know juniper squamatas are slow growing, and the roots of this will not have attached to the rock yet (note I have secured by gluing wires into the rock), but am wondering about balancing the two issues.

I only applied raffia to secure the roots.

Thoughts on going forward with the alu approach for the roots, versus something like the muck approach and pulling in the foliage? I am pretty certain roots already extended beyond the bottom of the rock.

I am being kind to myself in comparing my root over rock to this at NBPC : palm: :lol:
3D34FE8D-AA46-4273-9497-FDA2AB3EE91C.jpeg

It is in a pot like this at the moment…

Great drawing I know!
5B3FB176-F602-452B-913E-A2841202BF58.jpeg

This is the concept going forward. Whether using muck over roots or getting nutrients from bottom, I am open to opinions.
8556B022-ED30-405C-9494-4D710C9D7B62.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
--
No idea what I am doing…
User avatar
BonsaiBobbie
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Aussie Bonsai Fan
Posts: 217
Joined: January 17th, 2022, 12:52 pm
Favorite Species: No Luck Leptospermum, Could be Kunzea
Bonsai Age: 3
Bonsai Club: Sydney City Bonsai Club
Location: Sydney City
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Semi Cascade root over rock Squamata project

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

Update. I’ve dived in and repotted using muck to hold the roots.

It is just in an orchid pot with roots down and underneath the rock.

Hopefully it survives. The tree and root system look quite healthy already. So fingers crossed.

I’ll now have to manage my patience before I work out the next steps.
0D5AC671-A4BB-4752-AA06-C2D43B451783.jpeg
D662DDDD-889D-4342-B278-69D45C6F6A3A.jpeg
E191EF8E-9C14-4283-B294-D6814FD518FB.jpeg
282172AC-C812-40F7-935B-61E43E791380.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
--
No idea what I am doing…
Post Reply

Return to “Pines and Junipers”