Not black pine again!

[Raniformis]

Is this any good for a start into jbp? They're about 5ft tall, this one has the best trunk with branches in a reasonably good spot. Can I just lop the entire top off? They're only $60 but still, don't wanna waste money.

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[dansai]

Might be worth posting a pic of the whole tree to get a better sense. Going on what you have shown it looks like a reasonable start. You should be able to cut the top off and use the lower branches to build a tree. If you cut it all off in one go it will be a huge shock to the tree. You will have to watch water very closely as it won't use a lot when there is only a few branches supported by a large root system. You may also get an explosion of growth in the lower areas and end up with long thick candles which may not work well to build a tree from. If you can reduce the vigour of the sacrifice by cutting back to a side shoot then a year later cut it off you may be able to manage the energy better.

[TimIAm]

I also suggest not cutting off the sacrifice in one go. December this year, I killed an expensive JBP by being too hasty and cutting off the sacrifice the day I brought it home. Unless you know the history of the tree (in my case, I suspect that it may have been recently repotted before being put up for sale), my approach now would be to have it sit on the bench for a year so you can be certain it is happy and vigorous.

I don't see any need for haste and with a JBP my suggestion would be go slow and do it in stages as Dansai suggests. Others with more experience can get away with more aggressive tactics, but patience is better when you are learning how JBP respond.

[shibui]

A slightly wider view is needed to ascertain viability of JBP. All very well seeing there's some well placed branches and a trunk but as pines don't bud well on old wood I'd need to se that there's needles, buds or small shoots on any branches for them to be useful.
Scale is always useful as well. The only thing to estimate against here is needles and the vary in size quite a lot so the trunk could be thicker or thinner? My guess is 2-3 cm thick?

I think there's a small bud on the trunk - top right. If you take a long term view of this as bonsai that could well be the new leader of the tree. Depends what other useful buds and branches are on the trunk just out of sight.

Given what I can see, $60 is probably not too bad for that sized black pine with some low branches and buds.

[Raniformis]

Apologies for the late reply, waiting to get better pics.

@Dansai - Thanks for the input, gives me bit of an idea on how to work with them.

@TimIam - Thanks for the advice. I'm only new to bonsai, if it can be done I'd be reasonably confident to give it a try. Had to learn the hard way that you can't dig and chop at the same time though

@ Shibui - I would say this tree is about 5-6cm across at the base, the trunk is loaded with buds all the way up, there's also a couple of short branches here and there. It's pretty much a 4' stick with zero taper and a small crown at the top. Tag says nishiki kyokko, looks like it's been sitting around for a while.

I was planning on cutting back to the branch circled in blue, there's also another small branch just out of frame circled in red but I'd be happy to cut back to a higher branch as per Dansi' advice if thats the way to go. These are the best pics I have atm sorry.

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[shibui]

That is one strong sacrifice trunk! It will be drawing a lot of sap, energy, nutrients so I would be inclined to do that reduction a bit slower too.
With all those needles on the sacrifice you probably don't really need to cut at a shoot, esp as you're intending to chop again later. Without seeing it I'd probably reduce by half initially then take it down to the target when the branches below are stronger and can take over.
I think the blue shoot was the one spotted in earlier photos and looks good for a replacement but future development always depends on what happens in between so it pays to keep an open mind as thinks happen.

Pretty sure someone else recently posted the same pine variety. I managed to find some online info about it but have forgotten what and where now.

Good luck

[dansai]

It is a cork bark variety of black pine and most likely will be grafted. It appears from the photos you have posted that the graft is very low and cork bark is starting on the lower section of trunk. Cork bark JBP have their own little quirks for development and are not as easy or as straight forward to develop as regular JBP. Needles are harder to reduce and they tend not to ramify as easily. If the graft is not low enough they will have a skinny section of trunk between the roots and the graft. Above the graft will be a sudden increase in apparent trunk thickness due to the corky bark.

At $60 it is very reasonably priced for a grafted pine, but it may be easier to learn JBP growing and technique on a plain JBP

[tgward]

you can have this jbp for free pick up only - this was caused by enthusiastic incompetence by yours truly

[shibui]

It is a cork bark variety of black pine and most likely will be grafted

I thought Nishiki was a corky bark variety but when I checked it appears this is not the same. It appears Kyokko Noshiki is a dwarf form of JBP.
Here's what I found as a description online

Pinus thunbergii 'Kyokko Nishiki'
A smaller growing cultivar of the "Japanese Black Pine".
This lovely variety grows upright at first, becoming rounder with age.
It is capable of growing more than 2M and with selective pruning it can be grown in a traditional Japanese style.
It has fairly long needles that may be lighter green on young plants but soon become a dark green.
It is very hardy for full sun to partial shade.

[Ryceman3]

I was with Dansai. I thought all "Nishiki" were corky bark JBP ... plant ID is a nightmare.

[Raniformis]

Thank you to everyone who replied, plenty of good info to ponder in general. Big thanks @ Tgward for the generous offer, that's very kind of you.

It seems naming is quite the crap show, the tag on this one states the needles are short but they're actually quite long.

After thinking a bit longer, I decided to wait spring out and concentrate on parviflora, I reckon they make gorgeous little trees. Hopefully someone on the board would like to trade when the time comes... parviflora in exchange for thunbergii, densiflora or sylvestris.

Again, thanks to all who replied

[shibui]

It seems naming is quite the crap show, the tag on this one states the needles are short but they're actually quite long.

Needle length is a bit like leaf size in other species. When the tree is well fed and growing fast needles will be larger. When you develop plenty of ramification and maintenance trimming techniques the needle size can be reduced to a fraction of the real size. Don't be in a hurry to have small needles. All in the proper sequence and good time.
1. Develop a desirable trunk.
2. Develop branches.
3. Start to develop ramification on the said branches and apex.
4. Apply pine maintenance techniques to further develop ramification and reduce needle size.
5. Enjoy the fruits of your labour.

[Raniformis]

Cheers Shibui, hopefully some of the fruits come my way, otherwise ill be withered and old before the trees.