Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

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Keep Calm and Ramify
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Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

Been growing on this JBP for quite a few years now. Rough training & minimal wiring only. It is about to finally lose the big grow on pot for a more well deserved custom hand made pot. I've been making a conscious decision over the years to not make prissy, and rather leave a bit wild :twisted: .
I supplied it some nice "Mountain Dew" for the pics.
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by kcpoole »

Nice, that is quite a large tree :yes:
a fair bit of work to maintain that one i reckon :clap:

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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Raging Bull »

Love natural looking trees like this one. :tu: The texture of the trunk and brances is magnificent, tho' hidden for the most part. have you considerd removing or jinning a couple of branches so the internal structure is shown to better advantage?
Love your work. :cool:
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by robb63 »

Hi KC&R
Terrific pine you have there. Looks like the bark has not been touched by hand. Excellent texture, well done.
Canopy appears to maximise available sunlight too. Can not imagine a better shape to get the best growth :tu:
I'm very interested in what direction you intend to take this pine??
Also would appreciate some more info on " growing on" with this tree if possible
i.e.; how long in this large pot and was it in a grow bed at all?
To be honest I'm still getting my head around pines in general and particularly how they develop but I no I am not alone in that.
Any details you care to share will help us newer folks better understand how long it takes to grow a pine like that.
cheers
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Last edited by robb63 on September 2nd, 2017, 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Nate.bonsai »

She is certainly healthy. Nice strong firm vibrant needles.

Whoever grew it also did a nice job giving you so many branches to work with.

To my eye, she just needs to run a brush through her hair though. Maybe just a light touch to give some suggestion of structure/definition and create some differentiation amongst certain areas of the tree to give the eye something to follow. Could be done whilst still retaining the wild and free look that you are going for.



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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by treeman »

If you don't cut back hard soon you will run into the problem of having the interior branches die back and have needles only at the tips.
30% should come off this year and more next year.
This is the most pressing thing to consider at the moment.
Last edited by treeman on September 3rd, 2017, 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Nate.bonsai »

treeman wrote:If you don't cut back hard soon you will run into the problem of having the interior branches die back and have needles only at the tips.
30% should come off this year and more next year.
This is the most pressing thing to consider at the moment.
Good advice as usual. I did a BIG cut back on my two large pines this year. They now look like someone ran a lawn mower over them, or maybe like a kid that just cut their own hair, but I really wanted to push the growth back in as far as possible.


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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

Thanks for all the interest & advice guys on this one
Raging Bull wrote: have you considerd removing or jinning a couple of branches so the internal structure is shown to better advantage?
Love your work. :cool:
:wave: RB - Yes absolutely - I have been contemplating such things for the past 10 years whilst growing on. Now that I've hit a decade, its time to start concentrating more on the top structure for sure.
robb63 wrote: I'm very interested in what direction you intend to take this pine??
Also would appreciate some more info on " growing on" with this tree if possible
i.e.; how long in this large pot and was it in a grow bed at all?
:wave: Robb63
Initially my direction was something similar to the JPB scans below (sorry for quality - taken from old BDU magazine circa 1980!)
I liked seeing just a glimpse of trunk at the base & the full foliage head.
scan2.jpeg
scan1.jpeg
This tree has been pot grown for the last 10years. It has never been in a grow bed. It's been living in standard good quality potting mix with lots of feeding. In the potting mix I also add some chunks of charcoal, old pine needles, and a handful of old rusty nails or other iron items.
It has been fed mainly on a combination of chook poo, sometimes Charlie carp (or similar foliar feed) & lots of seasol drenching. Full sun always with good air circulation. A couple of pics during growing phase
JBP 2011.jpeg
JBP 2014.jpeg
treeman wrote:If you don't cut back hard soon you will run into the problem of having the interior branches die back and have needles only at the tips.
30% should come off this year and more next year.
This is the most pressing thing to consider at the moment.
:wave: Mr Treeman - Yes couldn't agree with you more - I've now booked in my schedule the next 10 years for concentrating more on the top structure. With so many branches a lot of these could be removed (grown on as sacrifices)

Hopefully this has helped answer some questions & trust everyone had a great Fathers Day!
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Corby »

Hi, I am just new here and keep in learning phase. how much water need to give to this. I am just going to bed and writing this text!
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

Thought I'd share this process - spent some time yesterday giving this JBP pine a haircut.
DSCF2707.JPG
DSCF2708.JPG
DSCF2709.JPG
DSCF2710.JPG
DSCF2716.JPG
Next stage now will be to remove some needles & any disobedient shoots to eliminate whorl branching.
It takes a pluckin' long time.. but I'm in no rush.
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by John(JP) »

Keep Calm & Ramify,

I am just getting my head around JBP so the thread is very interesting to me - have read all the replies HOWEVER am I understanding that with this tree in this decade of "growing on" you have only ever watered and fed and never cut candles, shoot selected or cleaned out old needles/branches etc. or have you done some or all that but in a less than dramatic fashion.

I see pictures, I read lots, I listen a lot and I volunteer at the NBPCA so I can add to my learning(with people who are very competent) and in with some of this I do hear the "do it this way, do not go outside the lines or it will not be a true bonsai" statements but your tree, for being left alone, looks excellent and very healthy(which surely is a critical component).

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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by anthonyW »

You have a very nice tree there my friend ...great work

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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

:wave: AnthonyW - thanks for your kind comment but more importantly, you're active contributions to this site. :tu2:
John(JP) wrote:Keep Calm & Ramify,

I am just getting my head around JBP so the thread is very interesting to me - have read all the replies HOWEVER am I understanding that with this tree in this decade of "growing on" you have only ever watered and fed and never cut candles, shoot selected or cleaned out old needles/branches etc. or have you done some or all that but in a less than dramatic fashion.
:wave: JP,
Yes your spot on with the last sentence here - I still have had to maintain the growth, by regular pinching back of extending candles, cleaning out needles etc.. maybe as you've described it as "less dramatic" (or what I would call lazy refinement :whistle: )
Leaving some candles altogether to fully extend & develop into branches has helped fill in some gaps, & not being too eager to heavily wire & create an instant "style" has been advantageous.
John(JP) wrote: "do it this way, do not go outside the lines or it will not be a true bonsai" statements but your tree, for being left alone, looks excellent and very healthy(which surely is a critical component).
I think the best way to learn a great deal is just by trial & error - the results (especially the failures) are beneficial lessons. These experiences become memory "tools', much better to build with. "Advice by others" can be a handy supplement, sometimes only used in small doses.

"Do not go outside the lines or it will not be a true bonsai" :o This is a stifling statement that has probably scared many people away.
What actually is a "true" Bonsai & who gets to make the decision???
If "staying within the lines" only produces a "true bonsai" then i don't want one.
If anyone is starting off with the mentality to make a "true bonsai" then please think again, & do send me a picture of when it's "finished".

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Whoops....almost forgot to add the all important & ever forgiving symbol..... :imo:
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by MountainFrost »

Love the tree and pot! Thanks for showing the process, really helpful for someone like me who is still very new to pines. Thanks so much! :tu:
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Re: Patiently growing on a Kuromatsu

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

Ok just to quickly update.....
15 days ago, this pine was cut back all over - large shoots were cut, medium shoots were cut, small shoots were cut.
a.jpg
15 days later, many fresh shoots have now developed & form all around the remaining cut stub zones.
b.jpg
c.jpg
d.jpg
Where one cut was made, many shoots have responded.
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