Japanese Black Pine in need of something

[paul smedley]

Hi all.
It is great to see all the info on the JBP in this forum and indeed i have read and read. However, I am not sure what to do with mine. It has been left in shade and grown ridiculously long and spindly. It is healthy though. From what i gather it would be good to leave it until the Spring? It obviously needs to be chopped firstly and then spoken to and pampered. Should I chop, repot, leave? any help would be appreciated. Cheers Paul

Photo 3-4-20, 1 50 17 pma.jpg

[paul smedley]

and I am in melbourne.

[KIRKY]

It really depends on what you plan to do with it? What style are you planning small/medium tree literati? You could wire the tall top sideways and leave it as a future sacrifice branch creating a new leader from the first bottom branch. This would help thicken the base/trunk. Or you could just cut it down to first or second branch. If literati just wire some movement into trunk n branches. Whatever you decide you should put wire on it now for future movement wiring in Autumn is safer as growth slows so wire can be left longer without cutting in. Repot Spring.
Cheers
Kirky

[shibui]

Yes to all the above.
Pines are very apical dominant. If you leave upper branches to grow the tree will allocate resources to the highest, strongest areas and lower branches gradually get weak and die. Already those low branches are very weak.
Pines do not reliably bud on bare wood so you should only cut back to where there are healthy needles so new buds can grow. that means either cutting the tall trunk out and leaving some of the lower branches or cutting the tall trunk back to some good needles. If you choose the latter the tree will still be pretty tall but those lower branches should regain some strength and you can make final pruning decisions later.
Sacrifice branches definitely help thicken the trunks. Bending that tall trunk down to the same level as the low branches will allow more resources to go to the branches so they grow better while still adding growth to the trunk.

Both paths have pros and cons but relatively equal in terms of the final product.

You can prune pines at any time. Early spring usually yields strong growing buds. Early summer usually yields smaller buds. After late summer and winter prune the buds don't grow much until spring then they grow really strong.

[paul smedley]

It really depends on what you plan to do with it? What style are you planning small/medium tree literati? You could wire the tall top sideways and leave it as a future sacrifice branch creating a new leader from the first bottom branch. This would help thicken the base/trunk. Or you could just cut it down to first or second branch. If literati just wire some movement into trunk n branches. Whatever you decide you should put wire on it now for future movement wiring in Autumn is safer as growth slows so wire can be left longer without cutting in. Repot Spring.
Cheers
Kirky

Thanks Kirky.
this has turned into a bit of a challenge. After watching the wonderful Peter from Heron's it seems that Literati is something 'easily' done. Fortunately i have just read up on it and this will be the way i go i think. I do have a bit of movement but will need a lot more clearly. Looking at it i have decided at this stage to keep the height, wire the trunk for movement, keep the bottom branch (1 of them) to thicken base. The top i will bend the top over and keep a few of the second level branches and decide later what to dow with them. I have attached what it could look like to begin with. What do you think?
Again, thanks for the poke in the right direction.
P

jbp 1 copy.jpg

[paul smedley]

thanks for your input too Shibui.

Hooping that the above pic looks alright to you as well. Sacrifice branch-tick. Strengthen lower branch-tick. Prune now-tick. So much help and learning in such a short time. now i am off to hit the books and Peter at Herons YouTubes.

Again, thanks the help is appreciated a lot.

Cheers P

[KIRKY]

Hi Paul, suggest you google Literati bonsai images and see what trees appeal to you ie: more bends, twists, branching etc.... This will help you narrow down a style of Literati that you would like to achieve.
Cheers
Kirky

[shibui]

Literati easy? He has got to be kidding.
While literati looks easy - just a bendy skinny trunk and a small branch or 2. How hard can that be? It is often suggested as a use for long,lanky trunks with few branches.
In actual fact literati is one of the hardest to get right. That's why you see so few of them in shows. Many have tried and failed to produce.
good luck with this project.

[paul smedley]

Thank you gentlemen.
I will see how it goes and, while under no illusion as to the difficulty with it, will have a bit of fun with my first bonsai wiring trial.
Cheers P

[KIRKY]

Having fun and learning is what its all about. Enjoy the journey
Cheers
Kirky

[jessepap]

It really depends on what you plan to do with it? What style are you planning small/medium tree literati? You could wire the tall top sideways and leave it as a future sacrifice branch creating a new leader from the first bottom branch. This would help thicken the base/trunk. Or you could just cut it down to first or second branch. If literati just wire some movement into trunk n branches. Whatever you decide you should put wire on it now for future movement wiring in Autumn is safer as growth slows so wire can be left longer without cutting in. Repot Spring.
Cheers
Kirky

Thanks Kirky.
this has turned into a bit of a challenge. After watching the wonderful Peter from Heron's it seems that Literati is something 'easily' done. Fortunately i have just read up on it and this will be the way i go i think. I do have a bit of movement but will need a lot more clearly. Looking at it i have decided at this stage to keep the height, wire the trunk for movement, keep the bottom branch (1 of them) to thicken base. The top i will bend the top over and keep a few of the second level branches and decide later what to dow with them. I have attached what it could look like to begin with. What do you think?
Again, thanks for the poke in the right direction.
P
jbp 1 copy.jpg

i also find the video's from Heron to be fantastic. He offer so much knowledge and time much of it goes over my head but i think its great.

[treeman]

Literati easy? He has got to be kidding.
While literati looks easy - just a bendy skinny trunk and a small branch or 2. How hard can that be? It is often suggested as a use for long,lanky trunks with few branches.
In actual fact literati is one of the hardest to get right. That's why you see so few of them in shows. Many have tried and failed to produce.
good luck with this project.

It has been said that you don't make literati bonsai, you accidentally stumble into them - if you're lucky.

[paul smedley]

Literati easy? He has got to be kidding.
While literati looks easy - just a bendy skinny trunk and a small branch or 2. How hard can that be? It is often suggested as a use for long,lanky trunks with few branches.
In actual fact literati is one of the hardest to get right. That's why you see so few of them in shows. Many have tried and failed to produce.
good luck with this project.

It has been said that you don't make literati bonsai, you accidentally stumble into them - if you're lucky.

Yes treeman. I can certainly understand that. could not have got it started as good as it looks now with any care i think.

[treeman]

Yes treeman. I can certainly understand that. could not have got it started as good as it looks now with any care i think.

Sorry Paul but I don't know what this means.

[paul smedley]

Yes treeman. I can certainly understand that. could not have got it started as good as it looks now with any care i think.

Sorry Paul but I don't know what this means.

Ha ha. Sorry. it means that it was left alone for so long it is a great height to start to use it. if i had tried to do it on purpose it prob ably would have been on the rubbish heap long ago. Who would have known that it's neglect has given me a great starter to use.
P