Demo by David Benavente

[Stu]

Here is something else to trigger y'all. If you are going to hate it make sure you don't put any effort to understanding the cultural background or the motivation of the artist. It just won't be as fun.

It's very nice. And took a huge amount of time and skill to create - hugely impressive from a technique/skill perspective. I just find it lacks character, or soul, or however you want to define it. There's no story to it - the trunk is twisty and crazy, but perfectly smooth and polished, and the foliage is completely perfectly placed. Like Tim said that's the type of tree you need to produce to "make it" but there's just no soul.

And yes, I admit that I have zero knowledge or understanding of the artist or his background/motivation.

I agree. I get a bit tired of hearing about an artist expressing themselves and delving into their motivation. To my less experienced eye many of these guys (extremely skilled as they may be) regurgitate what they have been taught through years of hard work and repetition and create a finished product as they are expected to. A bit like a dentist.

[tgward]

I think we should remember we see these trees immediately after styling and as such are not a 'finished' tree(if they ever are finished). It could take a few years out in the weather and on the benches after styling, to develop a few 'natural imperfections' and be more acceptable to the viewer. I'm sure the category 'bonsai' is becoming more broad but origins are also important.

[delisea]

Tim, I would not discourage anybody posting their opinion here. The more people that feel confident to express themselves the better this place is (this even includes Mike). For many of us this is the only place that we have contact with other bonsai people so I hope everybody feels welcome.

It is shame that you only clicked through the vid. He explains his stylistic choices and doesn't suggest you make the same ones. The insight into weakening branches for big bends, using of cotton tape not raffia, and deadwood working are well worth the time.

As for Mr Naoki Maeoka my understanding is that he worked in the corporate world as a graphic designer for 16 year and late in life took up bonsai. Some of his trees are almost cartoon like and are exquisite. I think his trees might reflect his graphic arts background, or maybe his apprenticeship under Keiichi Fujikawa?

I find the idea that there is no variability in Japanese bonsai very strange. The idea that these guys do not fully understand the stylistic choices they make is even weirder.

murata maple.jpg

No one can hate this. Can they? Murata I think?
Cheers,
S

[John(JP)]

Symon,

Thank you for posting the video and the result was IMO better than the material he started with.

Outside of that, I am lost for words seeing someone who may be new to Bonsai(bonsai age 1) posting a demonstration about something he found interesting and spectacular and after reading the responses wouldn't blame him if he abandoned the idea of Bonsai altogether or at the very least ceased sharing his new-found passion with this site.

In answer to some of the responses I have seen this on a few occasions previously - if it pains to see it and your convinced it will never change then wouldn't it make sense to stop watching or do what you think is better and post that so we can see why everybody else has got it wrong and you have got it right.

John(JP)
CBS

[treeman]

Here is something else to trigger y'all. If you are going to hate it make sure you don't put any effort to understanding the cultural background or the motivation of the artist.

Cheers,
Symon

I absolutely wouldn't put the slightest effort into understanding the ''cultural background'' or the ''motivation'' of the ''artist''
I don't need someone to explain to me why I should like a visual object like a bonsai. 20 years ago I would have loved it, now I see it as the epitome of artificiality and pretention and where the lack of imagination is complete.
Should I be cancelled?

[treeman]

Ti

No one can hate this. Can they? Murata I think?
Cheers,
S

No this is a fine work which has everything the juniper doesn't.

[Beano]

Ha ha. I thought it was just an entertaining vid. I didn't expect the vitriol. I find it hilareous Australians complaing that the styling of a Northern Hemisphere conifer. It's great. There should be more of it.

Here is something else to trigger y'all. If you are going to hate it make sure you don't put any effort to understanding the cultural background or the motivation of the artist. It just won't be as fun.

Naoki Maeoka.jpg

Cheers,
Symon

Yes but there’s a million more of those trees out there that all look pretty much the same. Doesn’t mean it didn’t take time and effort and the tree survived so wow... but I find these ones a bit meh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greg27]

No one can hate this. Can they? Murata I think?

Now that I like. There's a story to be had there. I'm not usually a fan of figurines but I can very easily imagine a few of Mark's little guys sitting under those trees.

[TimS]

Let me go into a bit more detail so i'm not just bashing a tree without actually contributing something.

i preface this with the customary statement that this is my opinion and anyone is welcome to disagree with it.

The reason i heartily dislike this tree is not me questioning DB's skill or technique or credentials as a bonsai professional. My dislike of it is that it perpetuates the idea that a 1 hour/ 2 hour/ 3 hour whatever demonstration using extremely rough stock is the way a demonstration needs to be run. We see it at all shows and conventions around the world. A variation on "here is a rough piece of stock from nursery/ field/ nature - i'm going to make it into a bonsai right in front of your eyes!" like a magician doing a card trick. Invariably, as i originally posted, they follow a very similar formula and end up with a very similar outcome because a few hours under pressure to re-invent a tree doesn't give much latitude to allow for out of the box thinking or tinkering.

There is a certainly truth to the fact you cannot judge a tree fresh out of a demonstration in comparison to an established tree. Total apples to oranges and fairly pointless other than to gauge the future direction it might take. However when you set up the initial styling by dropping branches and making fanned sparse pads you really only leave yourself one direction you can take it in development; the same way so many others go into a green blob perched atop a trunk.

When i was new to bonsai i would have hung on this video. I ate this kind of thing up; it didn't matter who the professional was, i was absorbed by it. There is however, only so many times you can see the same results come from the same type of material before you need a little bit more meat on the bone.

That Murata(?) maple is simply beautiful to me, there is no question whatsoever that is a delight of a tree. It is precisely because it does not conform to the usual manner in which bonsai are created that gives it all its quality and character. It is a tree i would aspire to have the creativity and thought process to grow.


Here are 3 examples of trees and who were involved in their creation that make me feel something, good or bad, where the demo tree left me yawning. I know these tree are like using a sledgehammer to crack an acorn, but none are the product of following a formula. You could argue the clump is, but i know i wouldn't have the restraint necessary to not add in more trunks or at least build more ramification therefore i include it.

1. Michael Hagedorn - Japanese maple clump. Elegant, reserved but without being indifferent, and the subtlety of bark colour adds interest when in winter silhouette some deciduous can be hard to connect to. I don't know how old or young this particular one is, but a similar effect could be achieved with relatively young material. No insane branch ramification, nothing over the top, just a very tasteful composition.

dsc_0214-1.jpg

2. Dennis Vojtilla - Japanese Maple approx 70 years old. To me this is THE Japanese Maple bonsai. It epitomises everything in my opinion Japanese Maple does better than any other species. Elegance, giving a gentle stoic feel of having quietly endured the years. Where Pines show they have weathered and struggled through them with the rough bark, jins and contorted movement, this maple gracefully displays the age. The dimensions and the gradual taper is exquisite and really puts me in mind of a mature tree. The slight turn of colour on the leaves giving a slightly melancholy feel of impeding autumn. Just a triumph of a tree for me, of course others are free to disagree!

dvm.jpeg

3.Ryan Neil - Ponderosa Pine. This design actually really irritates me, but it is actually a good thing. It is forcing me to think about why it irritates me so much. Where the demo tree leaves me yawning, this one is still forcing me to engage with it. I think what annoys me about it is the balance of the foliage being both on a similar level and similar volume, my eyes cant settle into a comfortable place to view it. Having said that i'm glad trees that force me to think about their design exist even if they do irritate me!

Ryan1.jpg

And i'll throw in this youtube link because i couldn't find a good photo of it, but this weeping ume from one of Bjorn's videos actually makes my heart ache with appreciation of the delicate beauty of it at the 4:45 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7pYUDpWAUo

[treeman]

And i'll throw in this youtube link because i couldn't find a good photo of it, but this weeping ume from one of Bjorn's videos actually makes my heart ache with appreciation of the delicate beauty of it at the 4:45 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7pYUDpWAUo

I'm not a huge fan of the apricot. I see too many un-natural, forced curves in the branches. I realize it's young and a work in progress but it's unlikely those curves will disappear. I believe this comes from rushing. (we are all impatient I know). But there is no doubt the best branches are built by cutting and wire only used to direct an already formed branch.
Here is an example of that....(sort of)...

floweringapricot.JPG

[TimS]

The apricot is no doubt 100% art and 0% nature, which ordinarily isn’t something I would go for, but somehow the clash of the straight trunk and the bends really works for me.

[tgward]

some really weird opinions here----- so you've seen so many similar trees.......so what? so they are not your ideal... so what? too perfect ... so what? not perfect .... so what ? too many egos happening here.............................................. so what? :crikey
p. s. had a few reds while watching a league ..............so what?

[tgward]

woops that is A-League ------------go jets

[treeman]

had a few reds .....

No!, Really?

[tgward]

had a few reds .....

No!, Really?

yeah --probably went in a bit hard -the reds bring out my real personality -forgive me.