Black pine candle question

[Tommy___]

Hey guys, I've got a few JBP on my bench, all getting the same treatment more or less, although the last one I got was looking pretty sorry at the nursery.


I decided to get it as it had great branch options and a solid nebari developing already, figuring if I put it with the rest of my happy pines, it would come back to fair health.


However, since the candles began extending, I've noticed it to have super abnormal, and leggy candles growing, so just wanted to see if anyone in the community might know why this is happening and how to go about making it happier and healthier.


I've uploaded a couple photos from different pine trees I have for comparison, and the tree in question first.


Thanks guys

[Ryceman3]

The growth on the first few shots you posted show juvenile growth, which by definition has a coarser, less attractive habit than the preferred standard growth.
This generally happens when the tree is under stress and the tree will revert to the usual adult foliage when it settles down ... junipers do a similar thing.
Hard to give more advice than that. If you want to put up a vague location and some other details (water, fertilising, repotting, any trimming back shoots etc.) it will make elaborating and speculation a little more accurate.

[Tommy___]

Thanks for your reply mate!

I'm in Sydney, bought it in April, it hasn't been moved out of the pot it came in.
I've been fertilising it with Nitrosol every 2 weeks this spring, same as my other black pines, and watering almost every day, generally ever second.

It was looking stressed when I got it at the nursery, definitely not as healthy as the other pines there, but I quite liked the size of the trunk and developing nebari compared to the other stock, so I pulled the trigger on this one.

Really hoping I can get it happy and healthy!

[shibui]

Hard to be definitive when we only have a single photo to look for signs but I would not be concerned about good growth.
A couple of different possibilities come to mind:
Different genes - Most JBP are grown from seed and we see some that are more vigorous and faster growing and others that are slow. Hybrids are also reasonably common and can have clearly different growth and needle character.
Different fertilizer, light, etc - Most of the influences should have disappeared by now but heavy fertilizing last summer may be showing up in the spring growth this year.

That's an impressive array of female cones in the last picture. Pity we have to decandle pines in summer and loose all that potential seed.

[Tommy___]

Hard to be definitive when we only have a single photo to look for signs but I would not be concerned about good growth.
A couple of different possibilities come to mind:
Different genes - Most JBP are grown from seed and we see some that are more vigorous and faster growing and others that are slow. Hybrids are also reasonably common and can have clearly different growth and needle character.
Different fertilizer, light, etc - Most of the influences should have disappeared by now but heavy fertilizing last summer may be showing up in the spring growth this year.

That's an impressive array of female cones in the last picture. Pity we have to decandle pines in summer and loose all that potential seed.

Really appreciate the reply mate,
It's really helping to paint a picture with what's going on.
I dare say it may have something to do with the fertilising of it, or lack thereof last summer, as I stated earlier, it was rather sorry-looking when I brought it home.

I should have mentioned, the first two pictures are candles from the tree in mention, but I've taken a few more this afternoon, which are attached to this comment.

Thanks again for your reply.

[Daluke]

How much sun is it getting?

If you take it out of the pot how much white fungus is present?

Looks a tad bit wet?

What are the black sultans like things on the soil surface??

[Tommy___]

How much sun is it getting?

If you take it out of the pot how much white fungus is present?

Looks a tad bit wet?

What are the black sultans like things on the soil surface??

G'day mate,
Thanks for your reply.

It's getting full sun all day, on the benches in the same spot as my other pines, where they are thriving.

The little balls you're looking at are controlled release fertiliser pellets, and it was watered shortly before the photo was taken, hence why it looks wet.
The soil drains well.

There is very little mycorrhizae on this particular pine, my other two JBP are completely white under the soil level.

[Daluke]

What type of bench are they on?

I found substantial growth of mycorrhiza when pots were left on treated pine wood.

Also, maybe try interchanging water fertilisers. One week nitrosol, the next Charlie carp. Should help with supply of micro nutrients. Realistically, you’ve only had the tree through winter. Uptake of fertiliser and growth is lower than any other season?

The fact there is elongated growth is good albeit juvenile.

Probably, what you are seeing is the result of nursery neglect?

[Tommy___]

What type of bench are they on?

I found substantial growth of mycorrhiza when pots were left on treated pine wood.

Also, maybe try interchanging water fertilisers. One week nitrosol, the next Charlie carp. Should help with supply of micro nutrients. Realistically, you’ve only had the tree through winter. Uptake of fertiliser and growth is lower than any other season?

The fact there is elongated growth is good albeit juvenile.

Probably, what you are seeing is the result of nursery neglect?

They are on treated pine, but I've finished them in decking stain so I suppose that's not going to have the same effect as the raw treated pine.
I'll definitely make a raw bench for comparison as a little experiment!

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll pick up some Charlie carp and feed the trees with a bit of that as well.

I'm still new to the world of bonsai, so the juvenile growth had me stumped.

I'll take on board everything that's been mentioned in this thread, and update once I see some changes in the young tree.

Thanks again to everyone.

[Daluke]

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Nice even spread of roots.

I imagine a hard cutback once vigour returns / is sustained?

[Tommy___]

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Nice even spread of roots.

I imagine a hard cutback once vigour returns / is sustained?

Haven't quite decided what I was going to do with this one yet, I'm tossing up between leaving it as a formal upright, eventually cutting back to the longest branch and going for some kind of cascade/semi-cascade, or twisting it up like this other one I've done.

I've cleared some space in the garden to throw them into the ground for a couple of years, the one we've been looking at will be getting the same treatment once I've figured out a style to go for!

[Ryceman3]

The twisty one looks good.
Formal upright is a really difficult thing to pull off ... there are good ones out there but they are few and far between. There needs to be taper on what is essentially a ramrod straight trunk. Hard to achieve when the best way to get taper is to cut back to branches that are thinner ... which bend in a different direction ... which makes the trunk not straight any more!
Informal upright as a style is a lot easier to get looking good for that reason.
Good luck with them, I think the one with juvenile foliage will be fine if you just leave it to grow for a bit.