My first time at a Bonsai Nursery

[JimmyTheSkip]

So today I went for a drive out to Bonsai Art and Bonsai Sensation because I am planning on going to the NorthWest Bonsai Workshop at the start of Feb and don't have a tree. So the goal was to find something that had been grown with bonsai in mind from the very beginning and something a little more developed than my other trees.

I went to Bonsai Art first. They were very friendly and helpful, and had a great range of plants.

I walked around and before I found something I was looking for I came across this Shimpaku Juniper on their Bargain bench. It's very thin and doesn't have much going on but I plan on using it as a training tree for me. Hopefully I can learn how to put some twists and turns in it.

shimpaku Juniper.jpg

I had my mind on a JBP for the workshop so I went and had a look. I came across this one. It can't stand up in its pot and I haven't really figured out what I'm going to do with it but I'm hoping that I can stare at it for a little longer and make a decision. There isn't much taper in the main trunk is it goes sideways so maybe I will end up turning that into a jin when I have a little more skill, and after I've put a few twists into it - if I can.

JBP BA.jpg

After that I headed down to Narre Warren, to Bonsai Sensation. Again, I thought they had a great selection. The guy at the counter was really helpful. Showed me some books, which looking back, I probably should have purchased as well.

JBP BS.jpg

I think I'm going to take this one to the workshop, the guy at the counter suggested cutting it back to the 1st branch on the right It would give it really nice movement and taper. I hadn't seen it when I was looking at the tree but when he said it, and twisted the first branch it did look quite good. I'll take it to the club night and see what they think.

In prep for the workshop, what size wire do you think I would need to bend the branches? Would love to hear your thoughts on the trees and the wire.

[shibui]

Wire size depends on species and thickness of the branches.
JBP tend to bend quite easily but it's a bit hard to recommend wire size when there's no real scale in the pic to estimate branch thickness.

The other JBP has some interesting bends though I can't see all the twists and bends as it is only a 2D photo so no depth to estimate hoe tight the top bend really is. The branches are getting a bit long and leggy as pines often do but the trunk probably has potential.

Not sure about the juniper. Very straight and foliage way up near the top. Some dead twigs on the trunk could mean it is not as healthy as it could be. I'd concentrate on getting it growing well before doing much as a healthy, vigorous tree will respond to pruning and styling far better.

[JimmyTheSkip]

Thanks shibui, your description of the juniper is very accurate. As I said, it's more of a practice tree. If it dies when I try to bend it too far I won't be overly concerned but you're right, I should try and get it healthier first.

I'll try and take some more photo's tomorrow of the pines and this time I'll put in something to give people an idea on the size.

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

Thanks shibui, your description of the juniper is very accurate. As I said, it's more of a practice tree. If it dies when I try to bend it too far I won't be overly concerned but you're right, I should try and get it healthier first.

Nice pick-ups there JimmyThe Skip. Regarding the juniper, the bark already looks quite mature. You can achieve some nice results with wiring just subtle movement in the trunk/s in the style of literati (Chinese Penjing) as a future consideration.
Below is hopefully a photo example as well as link to Bill Valvanis blog showing a few more.
If you dislike this style then disregard.
Not every juniper needs to be pretzel-ised, but if you feel the need for practicing wiring tight bends then go for it!

zhao qingquan.jpg

https://valavanisbonsaiblog.com/2013/10 ... t-6-final/

[MarkYee]

I was at bonsai art on Friday and have seen that particular shimpaku on the bargain bench.
IMHO that’s quite a large tree for you to put any meaningful movements into it as a beginner.
The literati suggestion would be a good design to follow.

If you want to practice those twisty curves and movement, you’ll need to buy stock which is 5 to 10mm thick.
Bonsai art has quite a few of those and long JBPs that you can wire and put in movements.

[JimmyTheSkip]

Not every juniper needs to be pretzel-ised, but if you feel the need for practicing wiring tight bends then go for it!

Thanks for the idea! I hadn't thought about the literati option. I haven't looked much into it, do literati need to be 1 trunk or can I keep both trunks?

If you want to practice those twisty curves and movement, you’ll need to buy stock which is 5 to 10mm thick.
Bonsai art has quite a few of those and long JBPs that you can wire and put in movements.

They did. I will definitely be headed back there and when I do I will be sure to pick up some of them, along with some JRP's that I saw.

I also learnt that I am not that great with a camera. After spending a long time trying to get some good angles, these were the best I could come up with. I think I need to find a place to but up a bedsheet or something so that the background is always consistent and there are no distractions.

This is the JBP I got from Bonsai Art:

JH2 - 1.jpg

JH2 - 2.jpg

JH2 - 3.jpg

JH2 - 4.jpg

JH2 - 5.jpg

JH2 - 6.jpg

JH2 - 7.jpg

JH2 - 8.jpg

And this is the JBP pine I got from Bonsai Sensations:

JH1 - 1.jpg

JH1 - 2.jpg

JH1 - 3.jpg

JH1 - 4.jpg

JH1 - 5.jpg

JH1 - 6.jpg

JH1 - 7.jpg

JH1 - 8.jpg

JH1 -9.jpg

And this is me reading Bonsai 101 out loud so the plants know what to do...

JH.jpg

Hopefully the bottle lid gives you an idea of the size of the trunk. I really need to find my measuring tape.

[TimS]

Glad you got to see two great bonsai nurseries and pick up a few trees to start working on!

I'm in agreement that i wouldn't bother fighting that juniper to try to twist it all over the place as it's beyond that point now and frankly i'm personally bored of seeing junipers twisted up like a knotted pair of earphones. I'd be working bring out a delicate and subtle literati from it as suggested. Literati gets a bad wrap as it's kind of seen as the 'get out of jail' style for tricky (read neglected) material that doesn't easily fit into the other styles. I tend to prefer the subtleties of literati styles when done well and developed slowly over a powerful trunk with predictable form.

You'll get different recommendations from everyone on what to do according to their own preferences, but for now I'd recommend what you are doing, which is reading and learning, get to the next club meeting if it's this month ahead of the workshop to meet others and get a feel for the group, and just getting familiar with the basic tasks of watering, fertilising and keeping your new trees healthy.

I know when you're new you want to dive in and do everything at once, but that is often detrimental to the health of the tree, so take your time and ease into it!

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

Thanks for the idea! I hadn't thought about the literati option. I haven't looked much into it, do literati need to be 1 trunk or can I keep both trunks?

That's the fun part - you get to decide.

[shibui]

Literati can be multi trunk. No problem.
Literati looks easy but getting it to look good is not quite so easy. There's plenty of uninspiring wannabe literati out there made from any long, straight trunk with just a few branches but I haven't seem many that I would bother to take home.

Thanks for the extra pics. The pine is a bit thicker than it first appeared which is good.
You mentioned advice to chop and rebuild from the 1st branch. That's a much more common way to develop bonsai than most beginners realise.
Given the straightish trunk with little taper and the cluster of branches at the top it is certainly something I would consider too.

The new photos of the other pine confirm that the bend wasn't just an optical illusion. It is hard to get good, random bends in trunks so I'd be looking for options to make that bend a feature of the tree.
The trunk line in the last photo also looks promising so this one has several possible options.

[SuperBonSaiyan]

I'd be looking at developing the JBP you got from bonsai art into something like this over time.

p4a4437-4.jpg

You could let the some branches continue to grow as sacrifices.

Only if you like that style of tree though.

[Nate.bonsai]

I'd be looking at developing the JBP you got from bonsai art into something like this over time.

p4a4437-4.jpg

You could let the some branches continue to grow as sacrifices.

Only if you like that style of tree though.

Nice suggestion. I also see an alternative option as follows (excuse my non-existent editing skills) - change the base line of the tree (see the flat line in the bottom right corner showing the new pot rim line) and bend the tree up and to the right to continue the literati trunk.

JH2 - 5.jpg

[Mickeyjaytee]

First time at a bonsai nursery? I’m jealous! Also jealous of the stock you guys have access to. There’s really not much here in WA so while I’ve been at it for a while, mine are all still pre-bonsai grown from seeds and cuttings mainly

I like the bunjin style for the juniper. It was never one of my favourites styles but, has now quickly become one of my faves. Looking forward to updates on your trees!

[JimmyTheSkip]

Nice suggestion. I also see an alternative option as follows (excuse my non-existent editing skills) - change the base line of the tree (see the flat line in the bottom right corner showing the new pot rim line) and bend the tree up and to the right to continue the literati trunk.

JH2 - 5.jpg

Just to make sure that I’m understanding your picture and suggestion correctly, is this what you were suggesting with the base? And then the top would be bent back to the right?

IMG_2741.jpeg

[Nate.bonsai]

Spot on.

And I see the bend coming from right down at that crazy hairpin bend about a third of the way up the tree i.e. not merely bringing the top third of the tree over in a big lazy arc.


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[shibui]

That trunk angle looks good but consider chopping the final part of the trunk and using the branch that already goes right as the new top of the tree.
Taper is an important feature in bonsai as it emphasises size. The existing trunk has little taper past the abrupt bend so does little for perspective.
Chopping the final section reduces the height a bit and adds good taper while also bringing the apex back to the right with little bending.

Need to consider whether the side shown is the best viewing front or if the other side is better. The decision is usually made on whether the trunk bows forward or back, combined with nebari and branch distribution. Being a flexible pine you can probably bend to suit.