Who Knows Their Junipers?

[Raniformis]

There's a few different types of juniper here can anyone tell me what they are?

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I always assumed these things were just big sabina but now I'm not sure, the biggest of these is 3-4m tall.

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This one is different, leaves are smaller, bussier and more uniform but maybe it's just a phenotype.

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[Raniformis]

It's hard for a newbie to figure out what's what.

Is this plant (juniperus x media) what you guys call shimpaku juniper?

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What about this plant (juniperus x pfitzeriana)?

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[Raniformis]

That pfitzeriana looks exactly the same as sabina except yellow, not sure I want to waste time cloning up if it's not much chop as bonsai. I'd rather load up on the media or nana gracillis.

I liken the juniper bonsai to moss growing on a rock. You have the trunk and branches with foliage that resembles clumps of moss scattered about the place. I can see the juniperus x media has foliage that clumps but different nurseries have different plants using the same name.

How big a cutting can you roll with? I watched herons nursery on YouTube, he claimed that pencil thick cuttings won't strike but his methods for clone are pretty slack, im not surprised they don't strike well.

Does anyone strike clones using a bubbler?

[GavinG]

Shimpaku is a dwarf form of Juniperus chinensis. The foliage grows densely, and knobbly, not with needles. It grows slowly - for good bonsai, it's common to grow it in the ground first, to develop the trunk thickness. There's plenty on the net to help you find out, and bonsai nurseries will have examples so you can see how it grows.

Gavin

[Raniformis]

Nah the interwebs is a mess, pop some pics up if you have them so me and the next person who finds the forum through internet search on the topic doesn't have to visit a nursery that's 200km away.

[Raniformis]

As a side note, some of the trees in mention are well over 50yrs old and some of the trees pictured are no larger than 1m. This trunk is about 3ft tall.

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I'm in an old area, all the street trees would be kicking close to 100yrs. Huge elms, ash and plane trees everywhere, even the paperbarks are huge.

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[Raniformis]

Besides which, this forum is dead as a door nail, if none ask questions ya might as well burry it

[dansai]

Besides which, this forum is dead as a door nail, if none ask questions ya might as well burry it

This forum may not be as active as other forums, however it is almost always a welcoming and constructive one. Particularly with the support and encouragement given to those just starting out in Bonsai. Some posts may not get many, or any replies, yet those that do can be very detailed and more specific to growing conditions in Australia. I Hope you find it more useful going forward.

As for your junipers, I cannot help out that much as I don't have in-depth knowledge of the many varieties grown in Australia. Assuming you are in Australia. Putting a location in your profile can help those reading have a better idea of advice and suggestions that might be relevant.

[shibui]

Juniper ID is a minefield. The differences between some species are so minute it requires seed cones to find the differences. Add to that the huge range of cultivars and varieties, some of which look quite different to the original species.
This has led to many early misidentifications, even among botanists. This was compounded by the usual double naming, reversion to earlier valid names and separating some variable varieties and subspecies into new species.
It's no wonder many of the plants sold in nurseries were mislabelled and some of those early mistakes persist today.
Trying to identify species from a sample of foliage is difficult and guesses lead to the sort of proliferation of invalid and incorrect names we've seen in the past.

Juniper x media seems to be frequently applied to J. chinensis. That species is a widespread species that is naturally confined to isolated mountain tops so has gradually developed into different forms on may individual mountains and over the length and breadth of its home range. In bonsai we seem to recognise 'Shimpaku', 'Itoigawa' and several other varieties as good for bonsai because of the small, tight foliage. In landscaping, 'Grey owl', 'Hollywood', 'Blauws', 'x media' 'xPfitzeriana' and a host of others all appear to be J. chinensis or hybrids with chinensis as one parent.

The reality is most of us are never going to be able to accurately identify which juniper is which.
Juniper species and cultivars all have very similar cultivation requirements so the only need for ID is from pedants who need to have labels for everything.
I choose junipers based on their suitability for bonsai and only really care about how well I can develop and style bonsai from the stock.

[Raniformis]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply and a special shout to Shibui for the detailed response.

As far as Aus Bonsai goes im always gonna roll with an Aussie forum over anything else, the dead comment was just a poke to get things going.

[treeman]

The first one looks like Cupressus macrocarpa ''Greenstaed magnificent'' not a juniper.
The forth is possibly ''Grey owl''
All the rest look like one or other of the many forms of Juniperus x media (sabina x chinensis).

[Raniformis]

Cheers Treeman, I realised some may be cypress the other day, I'm starting to get a feel for the differences.

I'm a little disappointed, I thought these were going to make nice bonsai.

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These two plants are really just a test to see if all the fuss was necessary.

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These two were going to be practice plants so I didnt destroy the bigger plants (trunks around the thickness of my wrist). They're all the same age.

[Raniformis]

Okay, think I got the shimpaku conundrum sorted.

Some may find the below links interesting, it explains the pfitzer group of junipers, where they came from and the original cultivars. It also explains the juniperus x media saga.

Simple version.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... av83IKY6Ht

Complete version (PDF)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... QtRQ1nkrKm

I can only assume the word 'shimpaku' was used as a means to differentiate the dwarfed forms of chinensis from the intermediate forms of pfitzeriana. The hybrid forms must have been heavily used before the discovery of itoigowa/kishu type localities.

[Raniformis]

For anyone who stumbbles across this in the future, don't take it as gospel, I'm more or less thinking aloud, just pondering the use of 'true cypress' and how that might have derived.