Chojubai info request

[KIRKY]

I’m taking this from another post that MJL commented on, I hope you don’t mind Mark but you have wetted my appetite for more information on Chojubai.
“ I could listen to Mike Simonetto discuss flowering species like Chojubai and the techniques of ramification on everything from English Elm to Chojubai for as long as he wanted to chat and Aus-based folk like Mike and others would make for a lively panel.”
Mike, for those of us lucky enough to have a Chojubai could I / we? request more info on your knowledge / techniques for growing / ramification / propagation /timing and basic care of this wonderful species. Pictures too please.....
If anyone else would like to contribute their finding all info appreciated.
Cheers
Kirky

[TimS]

I’m lucky to have a young clump from Mike, and just ordered 5 more young ones from Shibui to play with as I have fallen in love with the species.

If Mike wants to share then i'm a grateful listener! I have already pestered him a few times for and about Chojubai, so i don't think i'm high up on the Christmas card list, but i do appreciate the knowledge he does share.

Michael Hagadorn’s blog has some good information on Chojubai, but information is hard to come by generally sadly.

[treeman]

I’m taking this from another post that MJL commented on, I hope you don’t mind Mark but you have wetted my appetite for more information on Chojubai.
“ I could listen to Mike Simonetto discuss flowering species like Chojubai and the techniques of ramification on everything from English Elm to Chojubai for as long as he wanted to chat and Aus-based folk like Mike and others would make for a lively panel.”
Mike, for those of us lucky enough to have a Chojubai could I / we? request more info on your knowledge / techniques for growing / ramification / propagation /timing and basic care of this wonderful species. Pictures too please.....
If anyone else would like to contribute their finding all info appreciated.
Cheers
Kirky

It's very easy to grow.
Take cuttings in summer - medium wood, not too soft. If you don't have mist then put a bag over them for a few weeks. After that gradually expose them to full sun. They don't burn easily. Or cut pieces of the underground stems in late winter and pot up.
Pot in a fairly tight mix that still drains well. The very open mixes are not much good.
A mix of equal parts of sand, soil, and peat sifted to remove anything less than 1mm works well.
Don't use big pots for small plants. The mix should dry out if left unwatered for more than one day. If it doesn't, the pot may be too big and you may end up with root rot but I never have. In other words, the pot should fill up with roots every year. Just now after nearly 30 years I have started to let my big plant go 2 years between potting.

Grow them in full sun unless it's ridiculously hot. I use only osmocote for growing on, but a bit of blood and bone now and then is a good boost.
They take a while to get going after they flower. Once the new growth really starts to move at the end of the year, they can take plenty of water. If the leaves are a good dark green then your feeding is correct. They really enjoy a monthly feed of seaweed. It seems to kick them along and make better plants. If you don't repot in that year, give them a pinch of dolomite in autumn. Usually they like to be repotted every year. Especially if they are small bonsai pots, this is a must. You can put them back in the same pot but remember that they will dry out faster every year due to their size increase.

Trim new growth to 2 nodes but let it get long and strong first. Don't pinch soft growth. You should be able to do this at least twice a season if they are kept moving with fertilizer. I don't wire unless to re-direct a branch here and there but you can wire as much as you like. Just be gentle. Remove suckers unless you want them. Just let one or 2 new ones grow each year on an established clump. Cut the rest off at the base and remove them entirely when you repot.
Remove fruit on small plants. Even though they are usually sterile they still drain a lot of energy. Most flowers will fall off naturally.

[MJL]

Cheers Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KIRKY]

Thanks Mike, If I am wanting to create a clump would I not leave all the suckers? Or would leaving too many suckers put too much or a drain on the original plant and kill it? Is a clump crated by leaving only one or two suckers annually?
Appreciate all the info MIke thanks.
Cheers
Kirky

[treeman]

Thanks Mike, If I am wanting to create a clump would I not leave all the suckers? Or would leaving too many suckers put too much or a drain on the original plant and kill it? Is a clump crated by leaving only one or two suckers annually?
Appreciate all the info MIke thanks.
Cheers
Kirky

Yes too many suckers too quickly will remove too much strength from the original. Do it gradually always keeping an eye on the first part. Then the second and the third etc. It is easy to control. If I see a sucker that could be useful but is too strong, I would cut it back hard to the first node. This way, you do not weaken the main stem and you put movement into the new one at the same time. Doing this actually increases the vigour of the whole plant while balancing it's parts.

[KIRKY]

Many thanks for all the info Mike as Tim has stated very little out there apart from Michael Hagadorn’s blog.
Can you also plant many plants together to create a realistic clump or would they compete with each other?
Also you made note of the pot not being too big. Would you say they do better in deeper pots for growing on and shallower pots for display/show purposes.
Please post some pics of your Chojubai’s when you can.
Cheers
Kirky

[shibui]

I have noted that many chojubai bonsai are made with the exposed roots forming a large base. Something I am going to try now.
I've also seen some of the North Americans making clumps with several smaller plants to speed up the process. Not sure if they will eventually fuse together or maybe tangled roots is good enough.
I will have to start removing fruit. I've been leaving it to mature in the hope of getting some seed to grow some new cultivars but so far no seed as Mike said.
I put some in the grow beds last year and they have certainly grown faster than the ones in pots (which would not be hard - very slow for me here) Time will tell whether ground growing is viable.

[TimS]

I’ve found the young clump I have to be rampant in terms of shoot extension, but I’ve not had it long enough to infer anything particularly.

I’m intending to try ground/ box growing as well to see how they react to that. I’ve also read they they do air layer, though how easily I’m not sure.

I might make a little project out of it and see what happens

[treeman]

Many thanks for all the info Mike as Tim has stated very little out there apart from Michael Hagadorn’s blog.
Can you also plant many plants together to create a realistic clump or would they compete with each other?
Also you made note of the pot not being too big. Would you say they do better in deeper pots for growing on and shallower pots for display/show purposes.
Please post some pics of your Chojubai’s when you can.
Cheers
Kirky

My big plant started as 7 pieces of rhizome about the size of matchsticks laid horizontally and covered with soil so yes no problem planting multiple plants together. It now has to many stems to count however they never fuse together. Yes forgot to mention very sallow pots need extra care. If they dry our severely there's a good chance they won't recover. Use standard or squat 150mm plastic pots for growing on. Normal Debco potting mix works fine.

[treeman]

I have noted that many chojubai bonsai are made with the exposed roots forming a large base. Something I am going to try now.
I've also seen some of the North Americans making clumps with several smaller plants to speed up the process. Not sure if they will eventually fuse together or maybe tangled roots is good enough.
I will have to start removing fruit. I've been leaving it to mature in the hope of getting some seed to grow some new cultivars but so far no seed as Mike said.
I put some in the grow beds last year and they have certainly grown faster than the ones in pots (which would not be hard - very slow for me here) Time will tell whether ground growing is viable.

They are self sterile Neil. You need to introduce pollen from another clone or species to get seed and then of course you get a mix. I have crossed chojubai with Chaenomeles japonica (not speciosa) and got a few plants with small leaves but not as small as chojubai, I then back-crossed this to chojubai again and ended up with a couple with leaves as small as chojubai and even smaller flowers. The experiment continues. I also now have the white chojubai but it has larger leaves and more open flowers. Not in the same league but nice to have a compact plant with white flowers. I have also crossed the red with the white but so far the plants don't look like anything special. It seems to take 2 or 3 years before the seedlings display the their true nature and form. The flowers on all of them are beautiful though. A pink chojubai would be nice.........

[TimS]

Good to know they are self-sterile; saves me faffing about with trying to seed grow them and wasting my time.

Pink Chojubai would be amazing, good luck with the endeavours I’d love to get my hands on the var. Alpina with the orange flowers but that would be an import from Japan job

Is the white a pure white? I’ve seen some photos of white that look a bit translucent or with a greenish tinge

[Keels]

There lots of good info in this post but where would I purchase Chojubai from?

[terryb]

Usually they like to be repotted every year. Especially if they are small bonsai pots, this is a must. You can put them back in the same pot but remember that they will dry out faster every year due to their size increase.

Thanks very much for the info Mike, can I ask when the best time to repot is and how much you trim the roots?

[TimS]

There lots of good info in this post but where would I purchase Chojubai from?

Mark and I have just purchased some young ones from Shibui, not sure if we cleaned him out or not. Drop him a PM perhaps and see what stock he has left.