Hey guys, this is my first bonsai an 11yr old saotome bonsai. I’ve had it a few months and am loving it, I’m pretty sure I’ve got the watering down pat but I’ve got a couple of questions
1. It’s starting to look a little leggy(I think) so when is the best time of year to give it a really good prune? I’m in Sydney
2.I’m also going to do a bit of wiring so any advice on how I should style this little beauty would be greatly appreciated!
Hi Ricky, nice little azalea you've got yourself there. I started typing out a long response but decided to scrap it as someone more knowledgeable will hopefully explain things better than me!
As a start, take a look at this: https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/rules.htm (just take note of the paragraph at the top where it says these "rules" aren't really rules and they get broken all the time on many beautiful trees). The ones on bar branches, crossing branches, wiring lower branches down, etc might give you some thought on how to tackle your tree.
greg27 wrote:Hi Ricky, nice little azalea you've got yourself there. I started typing out a long response but decided to scrap it as someone more knowledgeable will hopefully explain things better than me!
As a start, take a look at this: https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/rules.htm (just take note of the paragraph at the top where it says these "rules" aren't really rules and they get broken all the time on many beautiful trees). The ones on bar branches, crossing branches, wiring lower branches down, etc might give you some thought on how to tackle your tree.
Thanks mate , yeah she is a little beauty but I feel like there is some room to improve it. I just read through those rules and they are an awesome guide, thanks heaps for that
You can pretty much prune your Saotome Azalea at any time of year as you don’t have to worry about flower development.
The one thing to remember is Azaleas are one of the few plants that are basally-dominant. Meaning they grow stronger on the bottom branches than the top branches. This for you means you can trim harder/more on the bottom and lighter trim on the top. As for wiring Azaleas are VERY brittle so you need to take care, there will be no warning of creaking in the branch, it will just snap! Shaping with wire you should gradually position branches over a few weeks, or it will snap! It is easier to clip n grow or you could use light weights to lower branches again gradually over time.
The other thing to remember wire first, as you will break branches/twigs, and them style what is left. Nothing worse than spending time deciding what to keep, cutting off branches you don’t want and shaping etc... to them snap the only existing branch because you cut the others prior to wiring.
So gentle goes it with Azaleas. Don’t forget to post your results.
Cheers
Kirky
KIRKY wrote:You can pretty much prune your Saotome Azalea at any time of year as you don’t have to worry about flower development.
The one thing to remember is Azaleas are one of the few plants that are basally-dominant. Meaning they grow stronger on the bottom branches than the top branches. This for you means you can trim harder/more on the bottom and lighter trim on the top. As for wiring Azaleas are VERY brittle so you need to take care, there will be no warning of creaking in the branch, it will just snap! Shaping with wire you should gradually position branches over a few weeks, or it will snap! It is easier to clip n grow or you could use light weights to lower branches again gradually over time.
The other thing to remember wire first, as you will break branches/twigs, and them style what is left. Nothing worse than spending time deciding what to keep, cutting off branches you don’t want and shaping etc... to them snap the only existing branch because you cut the others prior to wiring.
So gentle goes it with Azaleas. Don’t forget to post your results.
Cheers
Kirky
Thanks man that’s awesome advice!
Do you reckon it would be better to use aluminium wire or I can still use the standard bonsai wire just be extra careful?
Do think that in the case of my tree I should look at getting rid of at least one of the bottom branches or possibly both?
You can use any wire copper, aluminium doesn’t really matter. wire it all how you want it, then decide what you want to keep or get rid of depending on your design of what you want your tree to look like in the future.
Cheers
Kirky
Kirky has pretty much said it all. Trim and prune whenever it needs it or when you have the time. Azaleas are very resilient. They will produce new buds on any bare wood so you can cut back as hard as needed to make a better shape.
The clusters of branches are typical of azalea growth habit but cause problems with design because they interrupt the flow of the eye through the design. Whorls, bar branches and clusters of branches also cause physical problems when the trunk grows faster nearby and you end up with reverse taper and unattractive thickening. Try to plan for removing all except one branch at each level. Where that's not possible reduce them to 2 if at all possible.
Always look at the possibility of removing the main trunk and using a side branch as the new trunk at any point. That usually improves trunk taper but may be too extreme for many new growers as it usually entails another few years to regrow and develop a new apex.
The best sao to me bonsai I have seen are just 'green helmets' - a dome of green leaves on a short trunk. Usually developed by regularly shearing or hedge trimming the outline to increase ramification and branch density.
How you decide to proceed is up to you. There is no one right answer, just many possible directions and outcomes and nearly all good.
A couple of other things I forgot to mention try and cut your branches flat against the trunk. Don’t us knob /branch cutters on Azaleas as the scares will take forever to heal. Azaleas don’t heal over on cuts quickly, thats why flat cuts are best. Also if/when removing bottom branches remove the smaller ones and graduate up the trunk. Nothing worse than having large branches on top and smaller branches on the bottom. Something else for you to think about when selecting what to remove/keep.
Cheers
Kirky
Hey guys there been a bit of progress but I need a bit of help again.
So I took on all the advice you guys gave me and it took me a couple of months to get the courage up to actually have a crack at pruning the tree.
As you can see I’ve had a decent chop at it and have tried to get rid of any clusters of branches and removed any thicker branches from the top but I think I need to cut it back more, especially at the top. I also removed a lower branch. But now I’m kind of stuck on where to go from here.
I’m leaning towards making the top left branch the new apex and wiring the right branch down to make a pad.
Obviously you guys have a lot more experience than me so looking at what I’ve done so far what do you think?
The lowest branch looks good. It should bud all over now that you have taken most of the existing shoots off.
upper branches with all the shoots intact will just keep growing as they are. You may get a couple of new buds on the bare parts but as long as they have active shoots at the tips you don't usually get lots of new buds below. Leave it as is until that lowest branch starts to grow new shoots. That will give you some confidence to cut the others if required.
I'm not sure azaleas need an apex as such. They seem to look far better with a rounded dome top to me so I usually just shear/ hedge the top of mine and occasionally go in and remove the thicker branches to leave room for more finer twigs.
Rickybonsai,
A few years ago I visited a local country show which had some saotome azaleas on display. I took some pics which help illustrate -
shibui wrote: ↑February 6th, 2021, 4:02 pm
I'm not sure azaleas need an apex as such. They seem to look far better with a rounded dome top to me so I usually just shear/ hedge the top of mine and occasionally go in and remove the thicker branches to leave room for more finer twigs.
shibui wrote: ↑November 7th, 2020, 5:45 pm
The best sao to me bonsai I have seen are just 'green helmets' - a dome of green leaves on a short trunk. Usually developed by regularly shearing or hedge trimming the outline to increase ramification and branch density.
Although it looks like your vision for styling is heading towards a more open & layered branching style - The pics do illustrate how dense these little trees can actually get. They seem to love the clipping! Enjoy working on your tree.
sao1.jpg
sao2.jpg
sao3.jpg
sao4.jpg
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shibui wrote:The lowest branch looks good. It should bud all over now that you have taken most of the existing shoots off.
upper branches with all the shoots intact will just keep growing as they are. You may get a couple of new buds on the bare parts but as long as they have active shoots at the tips you don't usually get lots of new buds below. Leave it as is until that lowest branch starts to grow new shoots. That will give you some confidence to cut the others if required.
I'm not sure azaleas need an apex as such. They seem to look far better with a rounded dome top to me so I usually just shear/ hedge the top of mine and occasionally go in and remove the thicker branches to leave room for more finer twigs.
Awesome thanks Shibui that gives me a little more confidence that I haven’t completely ruined the tree haha. I think I’ll take your advice and just leave it be to grow now and then I will learn more on how the tree grows and i can aim to grow it into a thick dome and at least I know I haven’t got any clusters of branches up inside
Keep Calm and Ramify wrote: Rickybonsai,
A few years ago I visited a local country show which had some saotome azaleas on display. I took some pics which help illustrate -
shibui wrote: ↑February 6th, 2021, 4:02 pm
I'm not sure azaleas need an apex as such. They seem to look far better with a rounded dome top to me so I usually just shear/ hedge the top of mine and occasionally go in and remove the thicker branches to leave room for more finer twigs.
shibui wrote: ↑November 7th, 2020, 5:45 pm
The best sao to me bonsai I have seen are just 'green helmets' - a dome of green leaves on a short trunk. Usually developed by regularly shearing or hedge trimming the outline to increase ramification and branch density.
Although it looks like your vision for styling is heading towards a more open & layered branching style - The pics do illustrate how dense these little trees can actually get. They seem to love the clipping! Enjoy working on your tree.
sao1.jpg
sao2.jpg
sao3.jpg
sao4.jpg
Ohh thank you dot those pics, they are exactly what I needed...some inspiration. I think I might still try to get that style in the long run but I had to clean out some bad clumping of branches first
Rickybonsai,
- The pics do illustrate how dense these little trees can actually get. They seem to love the clipping! Enjoy working on your tree.
