Root on or Over

Pup · Post by **Pup** » March 19th, 2013, 10:05 pm

Steven shudup

I have been sitting with a week or two to forget

and there you are sunning yourself in some far off land.

Seriously, the reason for the post was to generate discussion, because Shohin generates so many variables. The biggest being where to start and where to finish.
I know you have access to Bonsai Today in the editions 45/46.

The 50 best Shohin, all of them Japanese, it is an eye opener.
With one tree being a Pinus thunbergiana Sunsho at 76cm(30inches) page 10 no 45.
Then in issue 46 page 7 it shows a Picea glehnii at 22cm (8.5 inches) on a rock with the apex measured at the top of the foliage with the rock slightly higher.The rock is very dominant.

On page 9 of the same issue is Chaemeles japonica 12cm (4.7inches) root over rock again with the rock playing a very prominent roll, in the same issue, on page 6 is a group of Carpinus laxiflora height 26cm(10inches) with a spread of approx 30cm (1foot).

So as you can see there is a large amount of ambiguity in the subject of Shohin.
Cheers a very jealous Pup

Bonsai4ever · Post by **Bonsai4ever** » March 20th, 2013, 7:23 pm

I'm also confident that a credible ROR could be produced from scratch in 18 months. It might not be a show stopper but it can be done, especially with an elm, fig etc.

Would love to see you do this Steve. You must have a secret that I am not aware of. I have been growing an Elm over rock for over two years now and it is still buried in a large pot as the roots still have spaces between them and the rock and they are still bound with raffia.

Guy · Post by **Guy** » March 20th, 2013, 8:04 pm

why make it complicated and pedantic when you can you can make it easy by just including any exposed part of the tree in the measurement--

Neli · Post by **Neli** » May 14th, 2013, 9:33 pm

I missed this thread. I tried to read and understand all the posts, but my question was still not answered.
I have a rock with a hole in it...the roots go inside the hole.
There is soil in the hole.
Two roots are coming over the rock..
The rock is slightly higher than the base of the tree, but the bellow tree part is a bit big, probably 10-15 cm high.
Since the rock is used as a pot, should the tree not be measured from the top of the soil/pot/rock rim...
I plan to put the rock on a slab, for better visual effect.
I would like to understand this better, since if I understood Steven well if the plant is planted inside the rock, then it shoulf be measured from the top of the rock rim/soil level in the rock.
Did I understand that correctly ?

lackhand · Post by **lackhand** » May 15th, 2013, 1:58 am

Neli wrote:I missed this thread. I tried to read and understand all the posts, but my question was still not answered.
I have a rock with a hole in it...the roots go inside the hole.
There is soil in the hole.
Two roots are coming over the rock..
The rock is slightly higher than the base of the tree, but the bellow tree part is a bit big, probably 10-15 cm high.
Since the rock is used as a pot, should the tree not be measured from the top of the soil/pot/rock rim...
I plan to put the rock on a slab, for better visual effect.
I would like to understand this better, since if I understood Steven well if the plant is planted inside the rock, then it shoulf be measured from the top of the rock rim/soil level in the rock.
Did I understand that correctly ?

This really only matters for the sake of the current contest. Did you enter the tree? If so, you should know when judging is done and rules are checked. It sounds to me like you are using a rock as a pot, and so that's where the measuring would be done, but your best bet would be to ask Steven directly (send a PM) as he will be the one with the final say.

If you ended up not entering the tree, then it doesn't matter, and just enjoy growing your tree.

Neli · Post by **Neli** » May 22nd, 2013, 12:36 am

I hope Steven will see this post. He is too busy at the moment shifting servers. Dont want to bother him. No big deal for now...it can wait a while.

jadecuphey87 · Post by **jadecuphey87** » July 9th, 2013, 10:29 pm

Rise to the challenge pup that would be awesome to ROR in 18 months.
By the way pup love this this lil guy and the rock its called home. Thanks
For showing us

Pup · Post by **Pup** » August 13th, 2013, 12:52 pm

I have accepted the challenge and here is the start, with a Ulmus hokkaido/nire geyaki, cork bark japanese elm. It started as a root cutting two years ago.

I have had this suiseki human form for a while. So today I started the challenge to produce a credible root over rock Shohin in 18 months.

Here are the starting pics.

Cheers Pup

EOS 650D0444.JPG

EOS 650D0446.JPG

EOS 650D0447.JPG

EOS 650D0449.JPG

EOS 650D0450.JPG

EOS 650D0452.JPG

EOS 650D0454.JPG

EOS 650D0455.JPG

EOS 650D0460.JPG

EOS 650D0462.JPG

Dario · Post by **Dario** » August 13th, 2013, 2:01 pm

This will be a good one to watch Pup .
You really do find yourself some great looking rocks

I look for them but I never seem to find anything of the quality that you have

Cheers, Dario.

Jason · Post by **Jason** » August 13th, 2013, 2:08 pm

Agree with Dario, that is great rock, and great placement too, looks like it should be there. Look forward to seeing it once it develops

Post by **Steven** » August 13th, 2013, 3:24 pm

Nice instructional post Pup, I'm keen to see you develop this one

But where will you measure the height to? Top of rock or top of tree?

Regards,
Steven

Pup · Post by **Pup** » August 13th, 2013, 4:11 pm

Steven wrote:Nice instructional post Pup, I'm keen to see you develop this one

But where will you measure the height to? Top of rock or top of tree?

Regards,
Steven

The rock is only 15cm so unless the fertilising regime I use makes anything grow. I think we can still measure, from the pot rim

Cheers Pup

Pup · Post by **Pup** » February 27th, 2014, 2:11 pm

]August 14 2013 I accepted a challenge of a root over rock in 18 months. Today I decided to have a look at how it was progressing, surprise better than expected so here is that update.

IMG_1569.JPG

IMG_1570.JPG

IMG_1571.JPG

IMG_1572.JPG

IMG_1573.JPG

IMG_1574.JPG

IMG_1576.JPG

As you can see it was a very pleasant surprise so now we wait on more development.

Cheers Pup

Raymond · Post by **Raymond** » February 27th, 2014, 2:26 pm

Where does one acquire the stock required for something like this? Ive looked at the big green shed, some local nurseries and local Home Hardware... I might have to make a trip to Perth and see Peter...

Pup · Post by **Pup** » February 27th, 2014, 2:37 pm

Raymond wrote:Where does one acquire the stock required for something like this? Ive looked at the big green shed, some local nurseries and local Home Hardware... I might have to make a trip to Perth and see Peter...

Raymond this particular elm is only available from me. There is a lot of conjecture as to what it is. Hirotoshi Saitoh, gave me the name, it is Nire Geyaki/ Keyaki, the reason for both is the Japanese find the K and G sound very similar.
It is a Japanese Elm a member of the Ulmus parvifolia group. Imported by a nursery man in the early 80's.
Cheers Pup

AusBonsai

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