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Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: July 29th, 2016, 1:54 pm
by barefoot
Steven:
On the Trident Maples you need to cut back the roots harder on repotting. don't worry about fibrous roots just back to 10 mm or so.
On the Japanese maples leave a lot of fibrous root.
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: July 29th, 2016, 3:44 pm
by melbrackstone
Other suggestions to selectively increase trunk diameter include wounding where you want extra size. We have probably all experienced the frustration of getting inverse taper as a result of pruning and the resulting callus and scar tissue grows faster than surrounding trunk? I have seen recommendations that it is possible to increase trunk size at a given place by a. repeatedly stabbing the trunk ; b. making vertical cuts through the bark; c. lightly hammering the bark to bruise the cambium below. All these suggestions are aimed at producing scar tissue which, in theory, should increase the trunk thickness at that point. I have been trying this on a couple of maples aver the past few years but can't report outstanding success so far. Maybe someone else has had better results?
There must be something in this, when you look around the nature strips in my suburb, any tree that gets whipper-snipped regularly generally has a wounded base that gets thicker and woodier from the constant damage they sustain...
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: July 29th, 2016, 4:44 pm
by barefoot
I would not be hammering either Trident or Japanese maples or even slightly tapping them. Their bark is much too thin and you will just have to wait for the rollover to heal. Vertical cuts do work and certainly whipper snipping will ring bark the tree unless you are luck enough never to complete the ring. Steve is talking Maples here not pines or junipers where drilling, tapping and vertical cuts all work, abate slowly. Keeping your base flat and having the roots spread is certainly the fastest way to thicken trunk except for sacrifice branches (use in conjunction with each other). Like figs the Trident maples when young (under 15 years) can almost be bare rooted at repotting but Japanese Maples you must be much more careful leaving reasonable fibrous roots. I have had the reverse occur when you graft or layer . Japanese maples seem to air layer and graft much easier than the Trident maples
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: February 28th, 2017, 9:26 am
by Jow
This is a cool thread and thought it worth a bump considering we are getting towards Autumn and seed collecting time!
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: February 28th, 2017, 9:50 pm
by shibui
Last year many of my Japanese maples did not produce seed but this year almost all the trees in the garden are loaded with seed
so plenty available for anyone who wants to grow lots of maples.
Tridents also have a full load of seed but I think it would have to be a pretty bad year to stop them producing seed.
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: June 6th, 2017, 11:22 am
by benrobertson4730
Thanks so much for this extremely informative post. I've got about 100 Japanese maple seedlings that are 1 year old. Is it ok to start this process now (Early June)? Or should I wait until late winter? I'm planning on using old CDs. Thanks
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Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: June 6th, 2017, 1:51 pm
by Steven
I started these ones in late June without issue Ben but I'm in Sydney. Best to ask someone local to you.
Regards,
Steven
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: June 6th, 2017, 5:33 pm
by shibui
You can start work on your tridents now but obviously no growth will happen until spring.
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: June 6th, 2017, 7:29 pm
by benrobertson4730
Thanks for your replies, I think I'll leave it until the rest of my repotting.
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Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: June 10th, 2019, 7:22 am
by MJL
Just bumping this thread because the content herein is hugely informative from Steven and Shibui. Thanks both and thanks for Mel for alerting me from the other thread.
)
Initially, I assumed that the new surface roots would be too clinical; perhaps they would form a straight 90 degrees from the trunk. Therefore, I wondered if it might help if the discs were slightly convex in some way but....no.... then I saw Shibui's stock and it looks like the roots above the disc spread beautifully and slightly curve into the soil. Cool.
Thanks again. This forum is a depth of information. It makes me smile (well, actually laugh at myself) and the musings that I often post as I think about this hobby. Clearly my knowledge remains at the very tip of the iceberg...
Cheers,
Mark
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: June 10th, 2019, 10:08 am
by shibui
Initially, I assumed that the new surface roots would be too clinical; perhaps they would form a straight 90 degrees from the trunk. Therefore, I wondered if it might help if the discs were slightly convex in some way but....no.... then I saw Shibui's stock and it looks like the roots above the disc spread beautifully and slightly curve into the soil. Cool.
I know that Treeman has spoken out about this issue. He prefers roots to enter the ground at around 45 deg if I remember correctly.
Initially the exactly horizontal 90 deg roots do look unnatural but as the tree grows those angle soften. The trunk and roots grow more on the top side where more nutrients take the quickest way up and down so I seem to end up with a good flared buttress after a few years of growing. At least
Everyone is free to have their own ideas about how to achieve the desired outcomes. I try to only put forward possibilities and always interested to see any modifications or alternatives.
Have fun making new bonsai everyone.
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: September 18th, 2019, 1:54 am
by 30nsai
Steven wrote: ↑July 25th, 2016, 10:00 am
I repotted these guy's on the weekend and was pleased to find that last years efforts had paid off with the trunks and bases progressing well on most of them.
I invested in them again by spreading the roots, planting on plastic discs and if there were sides with no roots, I did partial layers.
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Hopefully the ones cut back will back-shoot in the right places so I can slowly start developing branches. If I don't get branches in the right spots I'll graft them. There are a couple in the bunch that are really showing good potential so I feel the effort if worth continuing
Regards,
Steven
very keen to see the updates at this stage
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: December 26th, 2021, 11:58 am
by thoglette
Bumping, but I've about a hundred odd trident seedlings (thanks to Birchman) and have planted them out in a variety of situations (from seedling trays to direct into large pots). if they survive this week (40+ in the day and bumping 30 at night) I'll do some updates
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: February 13th, 2022, 4:27 pm
by Scott Roxburgh
I'll
too.
I was hoping there would be some updates on these little guys too Steven.
This is a great thread, like the 'How to grow good bonsai stock like the Japanese nurseries' one.
I have done a few of these over the years, but I find it hard to keep on track with the progress. It is very easy to have them tread water for a few years. I think one of the biggest things for me is that they are 'just little seedlings' so get neglected, even though they are some of the most promising material on the bench.
I have Trident seedlings on the go again this year so will be aiming to get 100 or so into the fitness regime. I'll try and maintain enthusiasm.
Scott
Re: Future shohin Maples
Posted: February 15th, 2022, 3:47 pm
by BirchMan
thoglette wrote: ↑December 26th, 2021, 11:58 am
Bumping, but I've about a hundred odd trident seedlings (thanks to Birchman) and have planted them out in a variety of situations (from seedling trays to direct into large pots). if they survive this week (40+ in the day and bumping 30 at night) I'll do some updates
GDay CD, didn't see this back in Dec. Will have plenty more this year I'm sure, many donations to the club and individuals! Hope some of yours made it through this summer.
Another vote for an update