Developing shohin pines

[Keels]

Gday,

I've been attempting to develop pines in the shohin size. I started with 8 Japanese black pine seedlings in 2018. I ended up losing one due to a watering issue in spring 2018 but the remaining 7 have been going strong. I've been attempting to create different bends and twists in most of the seedlings i started with.

I haven't done anything special with them but fertilise them regularly and keep them wired. I have been wiring them randomly. I plan to move them into bigger pots this year sometime.

So here are a couple of photos of what ive been working on.

Would love to hear how other people have been developing shohin sized pines. Couple of photos would help or any feedback to improve on the ones i currently have

Cheers guys. Keep safe from that virus as well

[juan73870]

some serious twists and turns going on there!
im definitely looking forward to watching the progression of these!

lifes pretty straight without twisties

[shibui]

Need to be a bit wary of really tight curls in any species. As the trunk thickens these tight bends will thicken and fuse into a single large mass. Reverse taper on steroids.
Options include shari to stop it thickening on the inside or layering to make the bulging spot the base of the trunk.

I can see plenty in those photos that should make great shohin bonsai.

[Daluke]

Leave the wire on. The pines grow over them. It increases the character of the trunk

[KIRKY]

Agree with leaving the wire on. Also as a suggestion wiring further down and twisting the young roots that would eventually grow and fuse would remove the reverse tapper issue in the future. This would then be the base of the future tree with the new roots to be developed in the annual/biannual repot being the nebari development.

Cheers
Kirky

[Keels]

Need to be a bit wary of really tight curls in any species. As the trunk thickens these tight bends will thicken and fuse into a single large mass. Reverse taper on steroids.
Options include shari to stop it thickening on the inside or layering to make the bulging spot the base of the trunk.

Thanks for pointing this out shibui. I didnt even think of this when i started creating the twists and bends. i will be mindful in the future to watch this.

Leave the wire on. The pines grow over them. It increases the character of the trunk

I did think of leaving the wire on but thought leaving the wire on was a technique for developing white pines. I'll have to do some more research as i have some others i could develop using this method.

Agree with leaving the wire on. Also as a suggestion wiring further down and twisting the young roots that would eventually grow and fuse would remove the reverse tapper issue in the future. This would then be the base of the future tree with the new roots to be developed in the annual/biannual repot being the nebari development.

Cheers
Kirky

i didnt even think about the nebari development I will start working on the roots when i repot this year.

[KIRKY]

When starting any young seedlings / cuttings, its always good practice to try and start developing the future nabari. I use toothpicks to position delicate top roots. Sometimes they are stubborn and wont stay put I use gravel or similar between roots just to spread them even staking them out with bits or all of a toothpick etc.. do this to the top roots creating what you want it to look like in the future. Don’t bother with the other roots eventually you will cut them off anyway. so just focus on the top. And most importantly cover the roots don’t expose them they will dry up and you will have wasted your time. Showing/uncovering good nabari comes years later.
Again
Cheers
Kirky

[Keels]

I was hoping to develop something like this in the long term. This is what i kind of envisioned when i first started.

[Ryceman3]

Leaving the wire in when developing the trunk is a technique used to increase girth in a relatively short time. It does work - but I would caution that I think it takes technique and skill to apply the wire so that as the tree grows over it, it doesn't create reverse taper AND it looks natural. The good examples I have seen I think have the wire put on in a more random twist than your regular wiring application, so that the tree doesn't end up with a scar/growth that looks like a candy cane spiralling up it. I have seen plenty of examples that make me think twice about doing it ... I just don't know how to apply the wire in the best way to guarantee a natural result with no reverse taper. Some pics below with what I am talking about ...

JBP - wire scars.jpg

JBP - wire scars 2.jpg

... couldn't find one with the candy cane, but hopefully you get what I am trying to say. Looking at your long term goal - I don't think it was developed with this technique (but doesn't mean you couldn't!)

As for developing the nebari - 100% agree that the more time you put into that in the early stages the less drama you will have in the future, and the better tree you will have down the track. Definitely agree with the point about keeping your nebari buried as it develops too, don't expose it too early. That's a trap for young players that I have been guilty of in the past. Nebari is one of the things that really elevates a bonsai when it is en pointe, so I would encourage you to keep it at the top of your agenda.

[Keep Calm and Ramify]

... couldn't find one with the candy cane, but hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

Allow me.....Ouch!

IMG_0340.jpg

IMG_0339.jpg

[KIRKY]

One question how old was it when wired?
Ryan your two examples, I don't see as problem apart from the reverse tapper which can be fix by scoring and burying deeper next Spring, air-layer in pot. To avoid this in seedlings when wiring and shaping compress the seedling down toward the roots then repot. As for the wire marks they are nothing to worry about. Were dealing with seedlings. Pine’s develop nice bark plates that will cover that in years to come guaranteed. I suspect KRC’s example was on a much older tree not a seedling and the wire was left way too long cutting into cambium. In older trees it takes longer if ever for this to disappear.
Reason why they are two different examples cambium. Cambium on seedlings is so thin nothing really to damage that won’t grow out. Time is on your side with damaging seedlings. On 3,4,5 year old and older trees the cambium is thicker allowing wire to cut in at that stage leaving deeper scaring pending obviously how long the wire was left to bite in. The longer it was left to cut in the harder to grow out if not impossible. Also another factor wire size larger wire for older trees to hold shape. On seedlings wire is smaller gage and cambium grows over.
Again
Cheers
Kirky

[Ryceman3]

Yeah, I think KC&R put into pics what I was describing in words... badly. That spiral is a bit... well... like a spiral.
Kirky, thanks for the added explanation. Note, these aren’t my trees- just pics I found so no real insight into the timing of stuff/age of the tree. Like I said, I’m not against the technique - I just haven’t done it and I’ve seen a lot of examples where it hasn’t paid off. What you say makes sense in terms of thickness of cambium and them being seedlings etc means quick recovery on material that won’t be scarred for life. I have seedlings this year that I might just try it on and help me progress/understand ... I’m pretty anal so watching wire bite in might send me to an early grave (probably another reason that I haven’t gone down this route quite yet), I might just give it a go... be ready for questions if I do!
Might need a bit of explanation about the scoring/burying, but that’s for a later conversation.