AusBonsai Shohin Progressive Styling Competition 2011/2012

[kcpoole]

Put that same plant in a Bonsai pot and put it on the show bench and the comment will be nice Bonsai or shari Bonsai.
They will say Bonsai when it is in a Bonsai Pot.

Cheers Pup

and as we have been trying to convince people ever since Bonsai was invented, Just because it is in a bonsai pot, does not make it a Bonsai.


Pup, You are correct that many will say that, but as you yourself have said that a Stick in a pot is not a bonsai. It is a still just a stick in a pot.
so to us Knowlegable ones, an untrained tree therefore is still just a piece of stock no matter what it is potted in!

As us experienced and skilled site administrators, owners, Bonsai masters Bonsai artists make the comp rules, we all should understand that concept as to what constitutes a Bonsai.

Ken

[Pup]

Put that same plant in a Bonsai pot and put it on the show bench and the comment will be nice Bonsai or shari Bonsai.
They will say Bonsai when it is in a Bonsai Pot.

Cheers Pup

and as we have been trying to convince people ever since Bonsai was invented, Just because it is in a bonsai pot, does not make it a Bonsai.


Pup, You are correct that many will say that, but as you yourself have said that a Stick in a pot is not a bonsai. It is a still just a stick in a pot.
so to us Knowledgeable ones, an untrained tree therefore is still just a piece of stock no matter what it is potted in!

As us experienced and skilled site administrators, owners, Bonsai masters Bonsai artists make the comp rules, we all should understand that concept as to what constitutes a Bonsai.

Ken

Ken you have forgotten that the one who made the rules, had to ask whether it was acceptable, so that puts a different light on it.
Because he said no prior training, putting stock into a Bonsai pot is part of the training process. Even Buzzings wont sell you something not in a Bonsai pot and call it Bonsai will they. I have been called Pedantic, and yes on this I am because a tree that had wire 12 months ago but not since was not acceptable.

[dragon]

hi all what i will do is post a vidio of me and my 3 tree's tommorrow to prove me not cheat as of neighbours what are they
i aint got none so i will post vidio and hope i dont scare anyone
cheers dean

[Craig]

I don't think the pot has any deciding factor Pup,

STOCK
Stock can be obtained from anywhere provided NO PRIOR STYLING has been done other than trunk chopping and root work. You can collect, purchase from a bonsai or general nursery, take a cutting/layer from an untrained tree or you may already own suitable stock. It just cannot have had any previous Styling! There is no price restriction and any species can be used.

[kcpoole]

Ken you have forgotten that the one who made the rules, had to ask whether it was acceptable, so that puts a different light on it.
Because he said no prior training, putting stock into a Bonsai pot is part of the training process. Even Buzzings wont sell you something not in a Bonsai pot and call it Bonsai will they. I have been called Pedantic, and yes on this I am because a tree that had wire 12 months ago but not since was not acceptable.

He did not ask the question, but answered a Query on whether the pot constituted training. Being the equitable bloke he is, opened it to the population as to whether it was OK or not. He also attached the part of the rules that specifically say that root work IS OK to support his entry.
The only part of the rules that mentions a pot is the bit about final pictures and that that do not have to be in a Bonsai Pot.

ken

[Pup]

Ken you have forgotten that the one who made the rules, had to ask whether it was acceptable, so that puts a different light on it.
Because he said no prior training, putting stock into a Bonsai pot is part of the training process. Even Buzzings wont sell you something not in a Bonsai pot and call it Bonsai will they. I have been called Pedantic, and yes on this I am because a tree that had wire 12 months ago but not since was not acceptable.

He did not ask the question, but answered a Query on whether the pot constituted training. Being the equitable bloke he is, opened it to the population as to whether it was OK or not. He also attached the part of the rules that specifically say that root work IS OK to support his entry.
The only part of the rules that mentions a pot is the bit about final pictures and that that do not have to be in a Bonsai Pot.

ken

So you can put it up on a show bench in a box and still call it Bonsai whoopee. But No wire .

[Mojo Moyogi]

You have another fan in principle here Pup. And your honest opinions on this forum are a great asset to us all .

mojo
i have looked at my elm and decided againest it as i did put wire on the leader sometime ago so it does have movement making it not eligable. other than digging grow stuff out of the ground which has been trunk chopped i dont have anything that would be allowed. good luck to all the entrants and ill post my elm as the comp goes by just in the progression thread though

Nothing unstyled?

See mate, you have to let your stock trees sit there and hover for a few years, give the weeds a chance to develop some height, oxalis needs time to really take hold. Let the roots become a solid block, have some opposite branches go nuts to help you de-taper the trunk a bit first, have an epiphany then remove everything that has grown since you bought the damn thing, scrawl "AIRLAYER - URGENT on the nursery pot and fix it all later. Anything else is just too bloody simple. But don't just do this to a few trees, do it to 100 at a time. Therein lies the secret to my first 4 years in bonsai, which is a polar oppisite to how you have started out.

Yes, you are well organised and yes as usual I am jealous. So I will have to participate in the proposed "AusBonsai Shohin progressions for slightly inelligible trees" as well, because even disorganised me had trouble finding 3 cantidates without basic branch training and the ones that narrowly missed are promising.

The great thing is this competition means the Shohin forum we pleaded for will be chockers with new content and will be info rich .

Cheers,
Mojo

[bodhidharma]

So I will have to participate in the proposed "AusBonsai Shohin progressions for slightly inelligible trees" as well, because even disorganised me had trouble finding 3 cantidates without basic branch training and the ones that narrowly missed are promising.

I was lucky i visited the tip and found some of mine.

[Greenhorn]

hey all as far as im concerned i dont know why everyone is getting so wrked up and worried about the rules as long as you understand the basic concept of what been described in the very first posting. if anyone has no trust and wants to call you out you better be prepared is all i can say and if they dont believe you and you get disqualified then who cares just take that entry and make it a progression thead and update it every month or 3 months over a 14 onth period just so all the novice's can see how its done and everyone can learn from each-other isnt that what this forum is about? i am dissapointed that more experienced members arent entering because it would have been awesome to see what they could have come up with in that time. anyway i think the most of you get the my picture and if i get disqualified then i'll just be making progression threads because i think that's what this comps really about all the members posting several progressions SO cheers big ears and that you for (hopefully) readind this

[Craig]

i think that's what this comps really about all the members posting several progressions

Greenhorn , that about sums it up exactly , have fun

[Greenhorn]

The great thing is this competition means the Shohin forum we pleaded for will be chockers with new content and will be info rich .

Cheers,
Mojo[/quote]




hit the nail on the ead i think

[Pup]

hey all as far as im concerned i dont know why everyone is getting so wrked up and worried about the rules as long as you understand the basic concept of what been described in the very first posting. if anyone has no trust and wants to call you out you better be prepared is all i can say and if they dont believe you and you get disqualified then who cares just take that entry and make it a progression thead and update it every month or 3 months over a 14 onth period just so all the novice's can see how its done and everyone can learn from each-other isnt that what this forum is about? i am dissapointed that more experienced members arent entering because it would have been awesome to see what they could have come up with in that time. anyway i think the most of you get the my picture and if i get disqualified then i'll just be making progression threads because i think that's what this comps really about all the members posting several progressions SO cheers big ears and that you for (hopefully) readind this

If you have read the files you will see the Progression, of three of mine, that took from two years, to 10 months from stock to show bench.
But just my rules.

[Bretts]

Keep it simple stupid we are not playing for cattle stations

When wandering around my local bonsai mates garden the other day I mentioned the shohin comp and wondered if there was anything that he might be able to enter. The comment was made that since it was an online comp then there would be alot of cheating.
I explained that that was far from the truth. I don't think anyone is out to cheat at all.
Well there was this one guy that I believe was caught out scamming the popularity pol in one of the late great BT online contests. In fact he got banned over the scandal.
They had very strict rules such as only normal nursery stock under a certain price and newspapers to prove the tree had not been worked on at the time of entering. In my opinion this did nothing but reduce the quality of the entries.
As we are not playing for cattle stations I think the learning and the fun of this process is the biggest prize but it is nice to have some small tokens as prizes to add to the fun. When we set up the literati comp I believe we set the simplest rules ever for an online comp. Granted we did have two sections one for new stock and one for worked stock which meant nothing was disqualified but a few where moved into a different section.

So I think thye simpler we can make the rules the better as it gives us a wider range of stock and approaches to the task set. That is only my opinion though and would mean very little in the scheme of things but just want to make my point clear as possible.

I don't get why anyone would get short, upset or whatever just because some one is asking for the rules to be clarified. We all have faith in each other that we are not out to cheat, in fact I get the people that are asking are trying to ensure they are being fair to all. Shoot I'm sure it would be easy to deny a tree had wire on it before it was chopped.
I think it is a separate issue to question what rules have been given but with respect given that it is only our opinion I also think that this is healthy discussion.
I disagree with Pup on the pot issue. But I think I do understand his point.
If I was setting the rules I would have set them as I thought they read. Only the trunk could have been styled. Branch work was to be no more that hedge or selecting removal to style the trunk. Root work ok. Isin't this the normal process for creating shohin trunks?
I think this could have given us some exceptional quality stock to follow and what everyone wants to see. The whole reason for keeping the rules simple instead of the old BT days.
I just hope the mods don't get precious and make the next comp with all soughts of silly rules after this.



Edit: took me a while to write that so please excuse that I haven't read the last half a dozen posts

[Greenhorn]

hey all as far as im concerned i dont know why everyone is getting so wrked up and worried about the rules as long as you understand the basic concept of what been described in the very first posting. if anyone has no trust and wants to call you out you better be prepared is all i can say and if they dont believe you and you get disqualified then who cares just take that entry and make it a progression thead and update it every month or 3 months over a 14 onth period just so all the novice's can see how its done and everyone can learn from each-other isnt that what this forum is about? i am dissapointed that more experienced members arent entering because it would have been awesome to see what they could have come up with in that time. anyway i think the most of you get the my picture and if i get disqualified then i'll just be making progression threads because i think that's what this comps really about all the members posting several progressions SO cheers big ears and that you for (hopefully) readind this

If you have read the files you will see the Progression, of three of mine, that took from two years, to 10 months from stock to show bench.
But just my rules.

thanks pup i'll keep an eye out for them is been so difficult trying sift through all the info around and have only just began reading the progressions im a total novice and everything i know about this wonderfull hobbiy i owe to this site so this comp gives me an opportunity to show how you've all helped me in some way shape or form NUFF SAID FROM ME I THINK i'll just go by my interpretation and if i break em then so it be cheers and good luck

[Pup]

The most simple way, would be any untrained nursery stock bought from a general nursery. If you think you can make it 14 months.
No prior training what so ever.

End of no if ars or buts. KISS

Cheers Pup