[Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Ash eWorkshop
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Josh
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Josh wrote:Hi Grant, just thought I would check if this is cut back enough and a couple of other things I think I need to do before I go to far with it.
I cut it back and wired the new leader and cut the branches back. Do I need to cut back further?
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Do I need to flatten out branch 2 or leave it growing upward
Should I remove branch 4 to open up the centre, create a negative space, branch 5 can be grown out to the left.
Should 7 become the new leader. I have already cut back the main leader but should cut back to this branch to continue the taper better
On the right trunk, should I cut it back to create branch 8 as the new leader on that side and also shorten it.
The trunk on the right leans forward a quite a bit. I will wire it back a bit more.

What do you think???

Thanks
Josh
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

Josh wrote:Hi Grant, just thought I would check if this is cut back enough and a couple of other things I think I need to do before I go to far with it.
I cut it back and wired the new leader and cut the branches back. Do I need to cut back further?
72.JPG
73a.JPG
Do I need to flatten out branch 2 or leave it growing upward
Should I remove branch 4 to open up the centre, create a negative space, branch 5 can be grown out to the left.
Should 7 become the new leader. I have already cut back the main leader but should cut back to this branch to continue the taper better
On the right trunk, should I cut it back to create branch 8 as the new leader on that side and also shorten it.
The trunk on the right leans forward a quite a bit. I will wire it back a bit more.

What do you think???

Thanks
Josh
On the right cut back to branch 9 and see how that looks. If you need to go further then 8 could be the new leader now or wait till next year. Keeping more growth at the moment will diffuse the growth and give better taper eventually.

Branch 7 could be the new leader but think where you would like the eventual outline of the whole bonsai will be; you may need to eventually go back further down. Branch 4 could eventually be a new apex if you want to go way back for a smaller tree. You need some branches growing in towards the centre from the back or front; otherwise you will end up with a totally barren space. Branch 4 could be important if you cut back the right hand trunk as hard as you are wanting.

Branch 2 is acting as another trunk (and so is branch 4) and could be left as is to give more complexity; wire down some of its branchlets rather than the whole thing in my opinion.

Hope this helps; we are starting to build up the complexity in this tree which is good so don't keep going back to the start unless really necessary.

Grant
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Cheers Grant. Sounds good. Thanks. Will update soon.

Josh.
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Hi Grant.
Is it to late to defoliate. It has gone nuts and I'd like to rewire it again. Can I defoliate or is it to late in the season.
Thanks
Josh
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

Josh wrote:Hi Grant.
Is it to late to defoliate. It has gone nuts and I'd like to rewire it again. Can I defoliate or is it to late in the season.
Thanks
Josh
I am about to defoliate one of my younger more vigorous Ash in the next few days as well.

My more established bonsai I will leave for now.

Go ahead.

grant
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Grant Bowie wrote:
Josh wrote:Hi Grant.
Is it to late to defoliate. It has gone nuts and I'd like to rewire it again. Can I defoliate or is it to late in the season.
Thanks
Josh
I am about to defoliate one of my younger more vigorous Ash in the next few days as well.

My more established bonsai I will leave for now.

Go ahead.

grant
Cool. Thanks for that. Another naked tree coming up. :tu:

Josh.
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Update time
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I had to remove the apex section of the main trunk as it had reverse taper from 4 branches coming from the same spot. I have a new leader so will let it grow wild for a bit. There a branches popping everywhere so it should start to ramify quite well now. I left some smaller leaves on branches that were just starting to pop.

Josh
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

You now need to place all the branches wired into correct positions and this come from experience or after trial and error and practice.

All the branches need to follow a logical pattern(yours or the trees logic).Currently there is no discernible logic to the branch placements as they go at different ables etc



All the branches can come down at the same angle, or

All the lowest branches are lowered at the same angle and then gradually as you go up the tree the higher branches become horizontal then near the apex the branches are more vertical.

All the branches,(looking down from above) must radiate out at a similar line and pattern; not casting too direct shadow on branches immediately below.

For instance the lowest part of the lowest branch on the right can be lowered to about 45 degrees, the one above it can be lowered to either 45 degrees or less and so on up the side of the tree.Best to however do the lowest branch first, then the 2nd lowest etc up the tree..

You now have lots of complexity to play with and must make the most of what you have. Certainly now remove bar branches and replace them with the new buds that are emerging at different levels. 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 etc.

See how you go.

Grant
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Reworked. Is this better Grant???
78.JPG
80.JPG
Thank you for your comments Grant. Hope this is more what you mean.

Josh
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

Sort of.

I feel you have cut off too many branches and shortened back too much as well. The more branches the less each thickens and the; whereas the more you cut back you are cutting out the complexity and going back to square one.

Also the lowest branch on the right is pointing more upright than the one above it.

The branches in the second plane( to the back) are all flat and at the same level/

Minor things but with practice you will get better.

Grant
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Hi Grant,
Sorry it's been a while, things got a bit busy with changing jobs and a few other things. I seem to be a bit later loosing leaves this year than some but here is the tree as of today.

Firstly before wiring.
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After wiring
90.JPG
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95.JPG
96.JPG
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I had some die back on a few branches for some reason :?: :lost:
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Some of the photos show some branches to appear fairly flat, I will check these but I think it is the camera angle rather than the branch. Personally I feel on the right hand trunk, the first branch on the left needs to go to open the negative space between the trunks and it just doesn't sit right I think.

Thanks
Josh
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

Agree, or alternately you could cut off above the branch to make more compact on the right hand trunk.

This is a tree I would love to see in the flesh as it is hard to give advice from photos only.

Anyhow; in a few years time it should be even more ramified and interesting.

Die back may be lack of ferts, light or pinching back; but not serious.

can repot this year(now) if you wish.

Grant
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

Grant Bowie wrote:Agree, or alternately you could cut off above the branch to make more compact on the right hand trunk.
yeah I had thought the right hand trunk could do with shortening a bit. I'll have a look.
This is a tree I would love to see in the flesh as it is hard to give advice from photos only.
i assume this is a good thing wanting to see it in the flesh. I'll try to get some over head shots if you like. Maybe try to get a video it so you can se all sides and angles.
Anyhow; in a few years time it should be even more ramified and interesting.
it has lots of buds staring to poke their heads through so hoping for lots of branching
Die back may be lack of ferts, light or pinching back; but not serious.
Yeah possibly got damaged when wiring. They were all smaller branches so not worried
can repot this year(now) if you wish.
was wondering about repotting although I don't have a bonsai pot at present for it to go into so would just be a smaller/shallower pot to help control growth. I do want to work on the roots a bit as they are one sided. Would like to root graft some extra roots towards the back to even out the larger roots at the front.
Grant
thank you for your time with this tree Grant

Josh
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Josh »

I re potted today as suggested. I had a surprise when I took it out of the pot. I forgot I had planted the tree on a tile so roots were shallow underneath the tree. Still took a bit of work and hopefully it survives the work.
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I need another root towards the rear so I have removed some bark and applied rooting hormone. Hopefully it grows a root, if not there is a small one that would do if needed which I have moved across for the moment. I will see if it throws a new root where I want it to.
I also shortened the right hand trunk which i think improves it.

Josh
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Last edited by Josh on August 17th, 2014, 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Josh] Ash eWorkshop

Post by Grant Bowie »

Looking good but the wiring/positioning still needs some tweaking/smoothing/logic to make it really sing.

It should look regular from all sides in whatever angles/styles/directions you choose.

Grant
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