A Plea to our Aussie Potters

[Watto]

Steven recently posted a photo of a pot by BE Findley. I too am lucky enough to have one of his pots and I am hoping that a few of our very talented potters will lend their hands to creating just a few more "clasical" bonsai pots. Whilst there is no doubt that there is a quantity of great quality Aussie pots out there, but the majority are of the more rugged looking styles rather than the clasical styles.
As people who know me understand I have a love of Australian made pots and have a largish collection, many in use. However if you have say a clasical looking black pine or juniper, the more clasical looking pot is a good match for this type of bonsai.
There may be reasons why this style is not crafted more often, but this is just a wish from a "bonsai pot nut".

[joannm]

would like to see the other angles of the pot please .
I know the shape , but would like to be able to see the size ect

joann

[NathanM]

I 100% agree. I would love to see more classic style pots made by local potters. Personally I am not a fan of pots that are really "look at me" if you know what I mean.
I am not taking away from the Aussie pots with regards to skill and ability, I jsut prefer my bonsai in a more classic style pot.
I currently get pots sent over from Japan from time to time, but would be nice not to have to do this sometimes, while supporting local business.
Just my 2c

[Watto]

Joann - I did use this pot in the current shohin bonsai contest and so it will be seen very soon (as soon as the tree responds).
I hope our very talented potters did not take offence as none was meant, its just that another type of pot would be good!!!

[bonsaipotter]

Well Watto, the principal problem with trying to replicate classic designed unglazed pots is that we don't really have the choice in clays to give either the colour or firing behaviour. The second problem is that to get the shape and precision you are after in a classical pot takes a lot of time on each pot and the competition in the market from imported pots makes it difficult to commit much time to a pot. That's why the rugged pots prevail - beacuse you can be less precise and build them quicker. Not many folks are prepared to pay for Aussie time at Aussie rates when an hour of labour in China is so cheap.
But some do see the value in a hand made local product thankfully and I like to think you can find local classic design. There is a question about what classic design is too. It's one of those cultural questions about at what point in time are you interested in, because all cultures move as do design bases. So perhaps classically inspired might be the proposition?

Anyway for an unglazed pot within some colour constraints you should be able to get classic design.
As for glazed pots there is no reason why you cannot have a locally made pot of classic design to your exact specifications. It is a service we potters offer, including design and sizing consultation. Personally it is what I do regularly. The challenge may be to take the risk on a commission vs a ready made. Our pottery businesses are generally not so large to carry a big stock of readymades to suit every taste so most of the work is done on commission. You just have to ask.

Cheers,
Happy Potter

http://bonsaipotterycoy.blogspot.com.au

[joannm]

Morning Watto,
Happy potter is right in what he says.
I really specialize in delicate glazed mame and shohin pots. what shocked me the most , was people would pay $60. for Japanese ones.
I saw 1 online that sold for 60 aud from there, I made exactly the same and got 14.
What is the difference the signature.
Cascade pots of that shape are made over a 2 day period, as clay needs to harden before it will stand on its own.

I do cascades , but I don't like doing to order , it takes away the fun of designing for me.
it would be wonderful if all of the bonsai community would have a look at some youtube videos on pot making. then they would understand more about the procedure
and the time we put in .and our electricity and gas bills here are a killer also, so please think of the costs we have to contend with as well.


Sazuki Syu Zan always got his clay from China .and until 1940 most of the pots in Japan came from China. Shinto Pots, means New Arrivals.
We are ozzies doing our interpretation of an" old Chinese Art."

We are "HAPPY POTTERS" , just disappointed when we don't get the same recognition that our overseas potters get.

Other than that I am smiling as i write this . joann

[Ash]

Hi bonsaipotter your pots look superb! Love the large oval made for the National Bonsai collection. Nice crisp traditional lines. Love to add one to my collection one day. Ash

[Watto]

I appreciate the views of both Joann and the Happy Potter, I regularly buy pots by Aussie potters and have had pots made by Aussie potters on commission. I was worried about starting this topic but it is with the best intention and I strongly believe that the Aussie potters we have today will in a short period of time be in great demand for their products.
That said I look at this from the buyers perspective, I want to go to a place and see the product, feel the product, smell the product and get a feel of how it sits - maybe even hold the plant against the pot to see if they gel. This is certainly not a criticism of the loacl artists, more a suggestion that may improve their sales and stature within the bonsai community. If it is at all possible, and the clay is available, I would love to see a few "classical" pots on the market.

[bonsaipotter]

I’m with you entirely Watto. As a long term bonsai grower it was the absence of the sort of retail offering you describe, quality that you could examine, that encouraged me to make my own pots.
Without doubt that is what we would all like. Unfortunately I just can’t see it ever being realised. There is just no way to make pottery a viable business here. Costs, distances, distribution, alternatives and a thin market all work against it. That’s not a whinge by any means just recognition of the reality. We potters are really just hobbyists who do it for the fun of it.

And viability is a precondition to carrying meaningful readymade stock. Regrettably it just means that bonsai enthusiasts will continue to struggle for quality artisan pots, and struggle even harder for those of classical design. It's really hard to see an answer.

So to keep the thread alive and challenge the potters how about posting some pictures of the sort of pots you would like to see on the market?
Cheers,
Happy Potter

bonsaipotterycoy.blogspot.com.au

[Scott Roxburgh]

Interesting thoughts...I prefer the 'classical' look too, hence most of my pots are Japanese. Getting good quality pots full stop (Japanese or otherwise) in Australia is a whole 'nother thread. I feel that if you can get higher quality 'classical' Japanese pots at a cheaper price than that made by Aussie artists then we should buy them from Japan.

As Happypotter has said, most Aussie potters do it for the hobby, rather than the pay off and they don't like taking orders. They also seem to be unaffected by the demand of the consumer preferences as they are not relying on the cash, it is just a hobby.

...The second problem is that to get the shape and precision you are after in a classical pot takes a lot of time on each pot and the competition in the market from imported pots makes it difficult to commit much time to a pot. That's why the rugged pots prevail - because you can be less precise and build them quicker. Not many folks are prepared to pay for Aussie time at Aussie rates when an hour of labour in China is so cheap...

I think that most of the time this is a cop-out, kind of like saying "I don't need to wire, it has more of a penjing style!". If it is a hobby put the time into the pots and make quality 'rugged' pots. A number of these 'rugged' pots that I have seen are just sloppy work. I'd kill for some quality 'nanban' pots from an Aussie:
http://japanesepots.files.wordpress.com ... 111502.jpg
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[GavinG]

"Classical", that is, symmetrical pots are more easily made in moulds, and the process is only really efficient on an industrial scale - hence, they will come from Japan and China, and be relatively cheap. Hobbyists and studio potters making one-off pots have a wider range of artistic possibilities - some of these come off, some don't, and they cost a lot more to make.

Making pots on commission is actually quite difficult, unless you are using a glaze and shape that you have already developed, and just adjust the size. It takes a lot of time and experimentation to get a glaze to work consistently on a particular clay, and it may not work the same on any other clay. Shapes are not straightforward to make, pots shrink with drying, and again with firing in ways that aren't exactly predictable, and customers, after you've laboured for weeks, have been known to turn around and say "Oh no, that's not what I wanted at all!" I can understand potters being unwilling to take this much work on, for uncertain and inadequate rewards.

There's a difference between "rugged" and "sloppy" - in my view it is much more difficult to make an asymmetrical pot with good proportions than it is to crank out something symmetrical that's been done many times before. When it comes off, they can be marvellous.

We won't have an industrial bonsai pot industry in Oz. Watto, you'll just have to buy from local potters what they do best. I'm glad we have them.

"Nanban" and Bizen style wood-fired bonsai pots can be wonderful, but I haven't seen much of that done by Australians - they would certainly suit natives very well.

Gavin

[Lynette]

Actually making slip cast pots is the most easiest and quickest pottery method of all once the moulds are made, but the cost and time to make the moulds means that they most be used many times. This means that all the pots are the same. Currently I am finding even the imported pots have little variation in glaze and shape ( the chinese ones).
To develop a lot of different glazes and finished takes time, patience and a lot of experimentation, I am happy to do this and it is the reason I took up making pots. I found early on when I was first making pots that there was little interest in the classical pots and Pat was doing a good job of making as regular round and rectangle pots, that most other potters did not want to impinge on his domain.
Now Pat is not making pots anymore maybe others will take his place.
While slab made pots do take time to dry to leather hard this is not making time, however it does take about 2 hrs making time. How much an hour are people willing to pay for a skilled profession. $60.00 per hour, even if it were $25.00 per hour, that is $50 before the cost of clay (the cheapest part of the process), glazes and two firings, and the size of the pot is only a slight variation on the time cost.
I make pots because I love making them and sell them accordingly priced, just so I can make more, but not every body has that option.
Lynette

[Zyggy R]

A verified antique pot from any country is a collectors piece and worth dollars!
Any Australian artisan can copy a Japanese pot but why would they want to?
What makes a Japanese pot? The chop on the bottom? Easily copied!
Clay is clay, I have a porcelain supplier in Melbourne that puts the Chinese to shame.
So if you wish to pay top dollar for a probable copy, so be it! You are the sucker they saw coming!
I don't know an Australian artisan that makes Japanese style pots! Why would they want to?

My opinion,
Zyggy.

[Zyggy R]

Sitting here I ask what makes a Japanese style pot?
Can any one tell me?
Earth to Humans, Earth to Humans!
I have in my collection a wide variety of pots, all of which look like Bonsai pots!
Leaving out glyphs, chops, text and printed graphics which any artisan can do I ask what makes a Japanese pot!

Good Q he says, if I made pots, etc, why would I want to copy someone else!

I have some pots from local artisans that are one off, the Japanese could try to copy but would have a hard time trying.
What I am saying is my local artisan can supply me a one only, unique receptacle in which to show off my living art the way I want. Aussie style!

My opinion
Zyggy.

[bonsaipotter]

Good to hear some diverse opinions. Personally though size of the business may be 'hobby' there is no compromise on quality or style.I'm happy putting in the hours regardless despite the rate! It’s never going to replace the day job but has to provide compensation for the time and reflect the quality of the product.

The nanban pots you posted Scott would be a snap to make. Give me some dimensions and I’ll make a few, no obligations, to be sold to the highest bidder here.

I can also only speak for myself but as a principally commission based potter I’m only too happy to take orders. I’ve never turned down a challenge and made classic to rustic, 600mm long to shohin, without any constraint on fitting into a particular size. Generally it’s a matter of crafting a shape and size specific for a particular tree. I would have thought most potters would do the same. Part of the commitment to the craft also is a ‘library’ of hundreds of glaze recipes and test tiles.

My goal and personal preference is high quality classic style, but that is not a reluctance to satisfy any customer request, which I happily do. It’s just clay after all, very flexible stuff.
Here’s a pot I made recently, a halfway house between the strict profile of a rectangular pot and the softer oval. It's 340 x 250 x 70mm This is my version of classically inspired. Stoneware, satin matt, balanced durable glaze.

Cheers,
Happy Potter

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