Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

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cre8ivbonsai
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by cre8ivbonsai »

So we all now know what a Tokoname pot is and why some people collect certain ones. Thank you. It is now much less mysterious than before for a lot of us. Collecting these pots appears to range from obtaining a nice pot for a nice tree to go in it all the way through to an ancient museum quality piece.

I don't think anyone here needs to justify why they like/don't like certain styles of pots, whether in terms of visual aesthetics, quality, price or provenance ... it is just nice to have choice and the ability/means to choose.

Inevitably it comes down to personal taste, style and perceived/real collectibility, application and value. That is why we frequently refer to our hobby as and art, it encompasses many aspects that we all place different emphasis on ... the horticultural challenge; the artistic bent; the collector; the adherence to (Japanese) styling rules; quality vs quantity vs variety ...

Also at play is your personal interest, how much of your precious time you are prepared to spend learning about the specifics?

Personally I admire pots made from all different countries (though I don't have many of those), But I do like handmade Australian pots, I like the fact that every pot is different and has an individual aesthetic, I like to pick a pot up feel the textures and admire the intricacies first hand, most potters have vastly different styles, most of the time you can have a chat to the artist, and the majority is good quality. Of course the same could be said for high-end Tokoname as well (providing you can read/speak Japanese), it all comes back to YOUR style (or lack of it :oops: :tounge: :lol: )
Cheers, Ryan
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by cre8ivbonsai »

Gerard wrote:Is it possible to make a living producing bonsai pots in Australia? or A hobby/passion?
Every Aussie potter I've talked to says the later, mostly as a labour of love and the income is really only enough to support/supplement the materials/expenses. We are privileged to have such passionate people around. :aussie:
Cheers, Ryan
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by cre8ivbonsai »

JaseH wrote:Well Tokoname and Yixing are where the clay deposits are located - hence the potteries basically sprung on top of it. Where's the clay come from in Australia? :lost:
We developed brick factories in our clay deposits instead, and now they're all turning into housing estates :palm:
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by MoGanic »

cre8ivbonsai wrote:
JaseH wrote:Well Tokoname and Yixing are where the clay deposits are located - hence the potteries basically sprung on top of it. Where's the clay come from in Australia? :lost:
We developed brick factories in our clay deposits instead, and now they're all turning into housing estates :palm:
I always thought if you dig deep enough you'd find clay in all of Australia pretty much... Or is not all clay suitable for Bonsai?...

This whole pottery thing is getting very interesting. :shifty: :shifty:
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by JaseH »

MoGanic wrote:
I always thought if you dig deep enough you'd find clay in all of Australia pretty much... Or is not all clay suitable for Bonsai?...

This whole pottery thing is getting very interesting. :shifty: :shifty:
Clay is a broad term! Not all clay is suitable for pottery and there is a lot of variety in the clays that are. Tokoname and Yixing are famous clays, famous amongst potters in general - not just bonsai potters! One reason we can't exactly reproduce the unglazed Tokoname pots here - we don't have the clay! :(
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by Jarad »

I really like whisk(e)y. I like it from anywhere. Australian, Scotch, Irish, American, Indian, American, Taiwanese, even had a couple of European. I've spent from $40 up to $280 on a bottle of whisk(e)y. I even have plans on spending $1000 on a particular bottle that I will get shipped from the UK.

Does everyone on here agree that this is a reasonable amount to spend on a bottle of alcohol? No.

Do I like every bottling? Hell no. I believe Johnny Walker is a waste of money unless you're mixing it with coke and even then you're wasting your money if you're spending more than $40.

I'm not a pot person, but if someone looks at a pot, and likes a pot. They have a number in their head that they are willing to pay for it. Just like me and my whisk(e)y. Also, I believe 900 years of tradition makes Tokoname pots that little bit more appealing.

The moral of the story: If people like it, they will buy it.

My :2c:
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by JaseH »

Pat K wrote:I have a small second income, I own my cottage in the 'sticks' and I have a large kitchen garden, many fruit trees, chooks and bees and I catch the (very) occasional fish. So yes, taking all this into account, I'm certainly not wanting for anything I need to survive. :)
Oh yes, I only make and sell bonsai pots!
How other potters manage I have no idea.

Cheers,
Pat
That's interesting Pat! I know my mum(although still only really nutting things out as far as bonsai pots go), is lucky to cover costs and have a little left over to put back into improving her studio(ie. the back shed!), she doesn't really make enough to draw a real income from it. Hopefully with time it may change?

BTW.. she will be up your way in a few weeks for a pottery conference, I might send her around to see you if you don't mind(with shopping list in hand)! Unfortunately I cant get up there myself just yet.
Last edited by JaseH on June 16th, 2015, 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by MoGanic »

JaseH wrote:
MoGanic wrote:
I always thought if you dig deep enough you'd find clay in all of Australia pretty much... Or is not all clay suitable for Bonsai?...

This whole pottery thing is getting very interesting. :shifty: :shifty:
Clay is a broad term! Not all clay is suitable for pottery and there is a lot of variety in the clays that are. Tokoname and Yixing are famous clays, famous amongst potters in general - not just bonsai potters! One reason we can't exactly reproduce the unglazed Tokoname pots here - we don't have the clay! :(
I see!

Any reason why these clay's cannot be imported? Or can they?

Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by Pat K »

I think we have the raw clay Mo, it's just that we need ceramic engineers to refine what we have and blend it to make any clay body we want. This could be a very costly exercise without much to show for it in the end so will probably never be done. Tokoname is doing this now as their best red clays are finished....same for Yixing.
When China was exporting porcelain wares to England in the 15th century the Brits and others searched for the materials to make a similar clay body and ended up with bone china which proved to be superior to porcelain ie could be made finer and more translucent. A potter friend makes her own bone china slip and casts it, so we obviously have the materials.

Pat
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by MoGanic »

Pat K wrote:I think we have the raw clay Mo, it's just that we need ceramic engineers to refine what we have and blend it to make any clay body we want. This could be a very costly exercise without much to show for it in the end so will probably never be done. Tokoname is doing this now as their best red clays are finished....same for Yixing.
When China was exporting porcelain wares to England in the 15th century the Brits and others searched for the materials to make a similar clay body and ended up with bone china which proved to be superior to porcelain ie could be made finer and more translucent. A potter friend makes her own bone china slip and casts it, so we obviously have the materials.

Pat
Thanks for the clarification Pat.

The rabbit hole gets deeper.

How do you feel about the collective "Mirkwood" label for Aussie Bonsai pottery?

Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by Pat K »

I don't.........I think to even consider it is disrespectful to all the other potters who are making their own, unique, pots.

What they, (the potters) could do is move here .....cheap land and houses....great climate...midway between Syd and Melb and then we could all use the name of our village..Adelong...as the pottery hub

Now that makes sense :)
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by kcpoole »

Pat K wrote: What they, (the potters) could do is move here .....cheap land and houses....great climate...midway between Syd and Melb and then we could all use the name of our village..Adelong...as the pottery hub

Now that makes sense :)
Pat
What a very cool idea :cool:

there is a Online fundraising effort to create a Bonsai village in the US. Wonder iof the same can be done here :lost:

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Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by Elmar »

JaseH wrote: Clay is a broad term! Not all clay is suitable for pottery and there is a lot of variety in the clays that are. Tokoname and Yixing are famous clays, famous amongst potters in general - not just bonsai potters! One reason we can't exactly reproduce the unglazed Tokoname pots here - we don't have the clay! :(
Silly bloody question! Can the required clay be "Mixed" from its constituent materials? As in, make it!?!?

Along the lines of mixing a cake mix...

Cheers
Elmar
Last edited by Elmar on June 16th, 2015, 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by Andrew Legg »

Rory wrote:
Andrew Legg wrote:

Also, Pat has probably been called a lot of names over the years, but 'she' is one he probably would rather do without. :P
Lol, ja, I guess thats what happens when I think Penny and write Pat! :lost:
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Re: Tokoname: I don't get it. Whats the big deal?

Post by tgward »

I make do with what I can afford :aussie:
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