Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by Josh »

cre8ivbonsai wrote: Josh that's a nice interpretation, not a copy it definitely some of the potters own personality and decisions in there. I like that the sides are more curved than the original.
I commentted to Tracy I think I like her version better lol.

Josh.
Last edited by Josh on September 3rd, 2016, 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by toshtony »

Some better pic of pots purchased
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by toshtony »

Pot number 6 with Trident recently purchased from shibuibonsai. Fingers crossed I haven't stuffed it :fc: .
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by AirControl »

I don't think We should take Charliegreens comments personally. Maybe he was just exaggerating a bit?? And you gotta admit there are a lot of un-dedicated fat losers in Australia.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by kcpoole »

AirControl wrote:I don't think We should take Charliegreens comments personally. Maybe he was just exaggerating a bit?? And you gotta admit there are a lot of un-dedicated fat losers in Australia.
Maybe he is a frustrated 60+ bloke with issues!
To post that really shows ignorance of the problems potters face in producing particularly larger items in australia.

We are small population with large distances between major centres. To effectively market and deliver heavy good here is expensive.
That increases cost and reduces profits, which both serve to reduce the amount people can invest in production facilities. Kilns are expensive and they get expontially so with size

Ken
MadPotter wrote:
Charliegreen wrote:Massive lack of qual Aus made and JP pots in Australia. Get use to it.
Getting large pots, 50cm and over is a massive struggle.

Aus Potters are now in the vast majority unskilled 60 women who make spoons and clay faces and call them art.

I would pay big dollars for consistent, original pieces of a decent size. But alas were are a population of un-dedicated fat losers. :aussie:
As a newbie to both this forum, and bonsai in general, I have started to write a response to this comment a number of times but deleted what I had written as I felt it would come across in the wrong tone.
However, I feel I cannot sit and leave it unanswered. I take umbrage at the comment that the vast majority of Australian potters are "60+ women making spoons and clay faces and calling it art".
I make pots. Bonsai Pots. I make Art pots, Ikebana pots and yes, some Homewares. Not spoons and not clay faces. I pride myself on turning out high quality, high fired ceramics.
As do a number of other Australian Potters. Comments that belittle what we create serve no purpose other than to upset, insult and alienate the potters you so obviously need to encourage and coach into producing the sort of work you are looking for. I haven't been making bonsai pots all that long - maybe 15 months or so. I am still learning what you want, what sorts of surfaces, textures and personalities you want your pots to have - along with the more technical aspects required of bonsai pots. I would prefer to feel comfortable posting images of my pots for constructive criticism rather than feel I will be labelled as 60 + (wrong), and a maker of spoons and clay faces (also wrong!!!)
Whilst most of my pots to date have stopped at 33cm - 35cm due to kiln restraints, I have a new large kiln being sorted over the coming weeks so I will be able to do larger pieces. When it is firing I would like to post photos of my work for some critique, but if I thought I would keep copping that derogatory label, I wouldn't do so.

Rant over - Only my second post too!! They won't all be like this.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by Theodore »

AirControl wrote:I don't think We should take Charliegreens comments personally. Maybe he was just exaggerating a bit?? And you gotta admit there are a lot of un-dedicated fat losers in Australia.
Charliegreen's comments are inexcusable and thoughtless IMO. I was taught, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by JR_J »

Charliegreen wrote:Massive lack of qual Aus made and JP pots in Australia. Get use to it.
Getting large pots, 50cm and over is a massive struggle.

Aus Potters are now in the vast majority unskilled 60 women who make spoons and clay faces and call them art.

I would pay big dollars for consistent, original pieces of a decent size. But alas were are a population of un-dedicated fat losers. :aussie:
Charliegreen,

Like MadPotter I've been tossing if I should respond to your unqualified comments or not .... well here it is!

I don't know where you live - nor do I want to know, but you're completely out of touch with reality!!! We've got great potters throughout Australia - even not too far from your neck of the woods .... like the Happy Potter, check him out http://bonsaipotterycoy.blogspot.com.au he's making Japanese quality pots! Pat Kennedy, whilst retired he still makes the odd one - you questioning his quality of pots too?

Down our way we've got plenty of excellent potterers which are way from being in their 60s and a few very good nurseries who sell top stuff too - most of them get a mention in this thread!

I could go on ... but enough has been said! Just wake up and get out of your hole ... and speak for yourself re the "un-dedicated fat loser"!

Ken, not sure if he's a frustrated 60+ bloke with issues or maybe he's still "green"?!

Cheers
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by Rory »

Charliegreen wrote:Massive lack of qual Aus made and JP pots in Australia. Get use to it.
Getting large pots, 50cm and over is a massive struggle.

Aus Potters are now in the vast majority unskilled 60 women who make spoons and clay faces and call them art.

I would pay big dollars for consistent, original pieces of a decent size. But alas were are a population of un-dedicated fat losers. :aussie:
The first paragraph is somewhat interesting though...for example in japan they have grouped a lot of their potters on the one site and you simply order what you want and they make it for you.

Can you imagine if this site actually started up a section for doing the same for our Australian potters that can put up a showcase of their own pots with a minimum order amount per potter and with prices that they are happy to replicate. Then once they get an order they can replicate the pot on request and ship to the buyers address. But that is entirely up to each potter and whether or not Steven and the mods are interested in that idea. So Ausbonsai displays a showcase for each potter and the pots they are happy to reproduce. It has the contact details for each potter and the pricing they would like for each pot.

So without that, I agree that it can actually be difficult to acquire pots if you live outside a major city or even if your major city doesn't have a potter. So in that sense I guess that is something to think about. But the main benefit would be in having a 'one stop shop' to at least view what each potter can produce. It would be wonderful to have one site to browse what all our potters can potentially make without spending days or even weeks conversing via phone / email / travel. Obviously for potters who make one-off pots they could just display a comment that the final product will be similar. In all my online pot purchases from Australian potters, I have never been dissapointed by receiving something in the mail. Especially with the quality of photos we are shown beforehand by the potters. Having said that though, personally I find it a lot of fun and more of an adventure to visit potters at exhibitions etc. You get to meet the potter and they usually have oodles of pots to offer. But obviously this is not possible for a lot of people.

The second paragraph of charliegreen is simply their opinion, but I would certainly agree that it is perhaps an opinion that needs educating. Of course it isn't true, but charliegreen probably hasn't been to many great potters' sales tables or searched the forum in depth for Australian potters.

There is basically almost no online purchasing options for Australian pots and this is quite true, but it doesn't mean there aren't exceptional potters out there. It is just a lot harder to acquire them than it is from japan. To this I will agree unfortunately.

Large consistent pots are also difficult to acquire I agree but it doesn't mean they aren't being made. The comments were misguided and are offensive to the potters and to bonsai enthusiasts who respect our world class potters and I understand the resentment of the inappropriate comments.

There might be food for thought in this thread though.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by KIRKY »

To MadPotter :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: keep up to good work. Don't be dissuaded by comments made here by some...
The food for thought would be, stop Alienating Australian Potters.
Japan has been making bonsai pots for many, many, years. Their demand for pots has been very high both locally and Internationally. Australian Bonsai is only in its infancy by comparison. 
Pots in Japan are done as a full time commercial enterprise. Here in Australia I don't know of a full time commercial potter who is just making bonsai pots for a living. Even Bonsai Nurseries are struggling to survive. We don't have the interest of the population to sustain it. Aussie Potters are working mostly from their homes. Understand the price of Kilns, setting up Kilns, converting power, cost of clay and good glazes. Not to mention their time. If you think Bonsai is an expensive hobby..... How expensive do you think pottery is? We're not talking hundreds but thousands to start these projects. Electricity has gone up 60% in twelve months. Making pots is an expensive hobby for a household. Give Australian Potters a chance, they too are in their infancy of trying their hand at Bonsai Pots.
As as for charliegreen take your big dollars overseas as I don't see Aussie potters appreciating your offensive comments. 
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by Rory »

KIRKY wrote:To MadPotter :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: keep up to good work. Don't be dissuaded by comments made here by some...
The food for thought would be, stop Alienating Australian Potters.
Japan has been making bonsai pots for many, many, years. Their demand for pots has been very high both locally and Internationally. Australian Bonsai is only in its infancy by comparison. 
Pots in Japan are done as a full time commercial enterprise. Here in Australia I don't know of a full time commercial potter who is just making bonsai pots for a living. Even Bonsai Nurseries are struggling to survive. We don't have the interest of the population to sustain it. Aussie Potters are working mostly from their homes. Understand the price of Kilns, setting up Kilns, converting power, cost of clay and good glazes. Not to mention their time. If you think Bonsai is an expensive hobby..... How expensive do you think pottery is? We're not talking hundreds but thousands to start these projects. Electricity has gone up 60% in twelve months. Making pots is an expensive hobby for a household. Give Australian Potters a chance, they too are in their infancy of trying their hand at Bonsai Pots.
As as for charliegreen take your big dollars overseas as I don't see Aussie potters appreciating your offensive comments. 
Cheers
Kirky
Every industry has their costs otherwise it would be a dead industry. I understand what you are saying but I don't know how that is relevant to the quality of bonsai pots. In the US you have many sites that offer high quality bonsai pots and many members on this forum have purchased them and then proudly displayed them here. The quality of these pots when compared to Pat or Marie or freestylers like Graham and Penny is no different in my opinion. So why do you get so many people still importing pots? Because you can log onto their website and purchase the pot within a few minutes when you're at home and its easy to do it. This is the way of the future, its got nothing to do with a superior market. If you had a site here that groups most of our potters' work, then it would be the same, and you would be paying far less postage and have it delivered quicker. The old complaint that japan is superior just doesn't cut it sorry. England is another example that has multiple sites to purchase pots from, France etc etc. We just haven't got a platform yet so that the potters here can market to us and also overseas for that matter. If you aren't a member of Ausbonsai for starters, you probably aren't even aware of most of the potters in Australia.

The previous post I made was to highlight our potters who want their pots advertised for sale to reach their target market. I have spoken with potters who want their pots advertised and are keen to have some sort of assistance in this regard. Many have also started websites but due to the upkeep of a site found it too difficult to upload each pot. This is why Japan has kept their time to a minimum as they simply display a collection of the basic models that the potters are keen to replicate and sell.

We have to stop this mentality that Japan is superior and will trump Australia on quality. It isn't hard to develop a platform that would assist both potter and buyer in Australia.

I disagree and feel that bonsai in Australia has moved beyond its infancy. Just go to some of the shows and the quality of a lot of our high end material stands on its own merits. If the platform was there and working for buyers to easily browse and then acquire Australian bonsai pots, rather than the flood of cheap imported pots then it is a no brainer and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by KIRKY »

Rory, I don't recall saying Japanese pots are superior. I have never praised Jaanese pots unlike others here. I don't believe just because it comes from Japan that it is better. The quality of Japanese pots is no longer as high as it used to be.
The offence I refer to is the first post. I too know potters and that post was offensive.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by Rory »

KIRKY wrote:Rory, I don't recall saying Japanese pots are superior. I have never praised Japanese pots unlike others here. I don't believe just because it comes from Japan that it is better. The quality of Japanese pots is no longer as high as it used to be.
The offence I refer to is the first post. I too know potters and that post was offensive.
Cheers
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Yes, I am sorry Kirky if it came across that way or sounded rude. :crybye: That was not a quote directed at you but directed at the many users who continue to glorify foreign pots when they purchase overseas pots. It was a point I was making that if we had a site for :flag: pots that it would greatly increase the number of pots bought locally and begin to greatly increase the Australian bonsai pot industry. :beer:

The part which was directed at you Kirky, was just to say that I understand there are many costs for our potters to produce their pots. But all the other potters from overseas countries also have to bare their costs too. I also do understand there are advantages to being a potter in Japan, but at the end of the day the potter can ask the price that they see fit to charge for their pots to make it profitable.

And the funny thing is Kirky, if you were to purchase one of Pats equivalent pots, or Marie's, or Pennys, or Grahams from Japan.... you'd pay a lot more for them. I have seen pots which are quite similar to our potters. I also now own quite a few Tokoname pots and they are not always the famed quality I have been lead to believe. Yes, there are many lovely Japanese pots that I do own. But what I am basically saying is that if a potter feels they cannot compete against the prestige of Japanese pots or the costs are too much to make the pot, then they could perhaps charge a price that makes it worth their while.

Considering a lot of the well made shohin pots from Japan can be in the order of $200 - $400 when you include postage, I dare anyone to find a potter charging these sort of prices here.
And before the usual members here state that you cannot compare apples with oranges, I'm sorry but even the low quality basic tokoname pots not made by the master craftsmen I've seen, are still easily over $100.00

Now take a look at the shohin pots you can get from an Australian potter here for $30 up to $100.

I have no doubt that eventually sometime in the future there will be a collective Australian site showing or at least linking the basic shape of potters' designs by identity numbers to order online.
Then the potter receives an email from the buyer saying which pot number the buyer is after, the size of the options given, the preferred glaze .... and they'll start to create fierce competition to foreign pots.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by KIRKY »

Rory I agree, :imo: Japanese pots are over rated. Their older pots that you have to offer up your first born for, had quality.
Now the quality is questionable. And definately over priced!!!
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by Rory »

KIRKY wrote:Rory I agree, :imo: Japanese pots are over rated. Their older pots that you have to offer up your first born for, had quality.
Now the quality is questionable. And definately over priced!!!
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Kirky
hahaha that is funny.

Don't get me wrong though, I do love the Japanese people. I LOVE Japanese food. I love Japanese maples. I particularly love Japanese pots by Keishin who is like 268 years old and still makes pots. Reihou makes very high quality pots. Bigei makes lovely pots. And Shuhou makes some very intriguing pots and in fact I have seen some that resemble Pats work.

They have a wonderful array of pots to choose from but I look forward to the day when Australians from all over the country can just logon to our Australian site, choose the pots they want and send the potter the email request, like they do in Japan.

I can't wait to go to the Canberra Arboretum in March next year. I hope the potters' showcase goes ahead, because I am very guilty of looking at a pot first before properly looking at the tree inside it.
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Re: Bonsai pot vendor in melbourne

Post by toshtony »

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but say I needed a large pot for a yamadori I was planning on collecting or repotting. Say a round pot about 60cm wide 30cm deep.Would it be OK to ask my local poter eg Marg Fenn to make that 1 pot. I would get her to style it similar to one of her existing pots, but the size would be to my specs and pay half or three quarters to get it started and rest on completion. Is it a big hassle and therefore extremely more expensive to just make that one unique pot?
If it isn't a hassle and prices aren't extremely higher then maybe a page on this forum with details of bonsai potters in every state like stated previously would be ideal. I've recently come across this its not bad but could be better.
https://www.ausbonsai.com.au/wiki/index. ... _Australia
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