Trying to take better photos

Taking good photo's of your tree's can be challenging. Discuss your ideas and tips here.
greg27
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Trying to take better photos

Post by greg27 »

Lately I've been trying to take better photos of my trees, particularly my newly-potted ficus which I've always struggled with - it's not an amazing tree but in person the branches look okay, whereas in a photo they tend to look like a tangled mess. Since I wanted to proudly show off the tree in its new pot something had to change. I thought I'd put a few notes here just in case they're at all useful to someone else.

There's an awesome thread pinned to the top of this forum that has a huge amount of useful info. I had a read through this to get me started.

I've always put plants in front of a beige wall to take photos, and try to avoid direct sunlight. At my place the blank walls are along both sides of the house, which doesn't allow me to move back very far with the camera (there's a 1m path, and then a .7m garden bed, and then a fence, so I'm often wedged in a hedge trying to get all the branches in frame). I moved a few things around on the back deck which gives me a blank area to take photos and space to move back. I need to put the Weber and pot plants back after I'm done to avoid a cranky wife.

From the above-mentioned thread, I learned that I wasn't getting the camera low enough - photos are best taken with the camera level with the lower branch, so that the surface of the soil is just barely visible. This made a big difference when taking photos of my fig.

Also from the above-mentioned thread I learned that I was taking photos way too close, which resulted in a distorted perspective. Having the camera further from the tree and increasing the focal length results in parallel lines coming out looking more parallel in the photo - again this was a huge help with my fig as it made the branches appear less like a tangled mess. This is where a proper camera wins over a phone: phone lenses are generally wide angle so as to capture as much of the scene as possible, but this introduces distortion which isn't ideal when taking photos of a bonsai. I used a focal length of 70mm for my ficus.

So now I can move back further, and know to have the camera level with the lower branches. The last thing I added was a tripod. I ended up grabbing one from Kmart for $25. For $25 this thing is great - it's sturdy, holds up my DSLR no worries, and lets you make plenty of adjustments. It can also hold a phone and has a bluetooth remote. My camera (a Nikon D5100) is a bit too old for bluetooth, so for a remote shutter I plugged my phone into the camera and used an app, which let me take photos without touching the camera. Perfect.

A quick Google also led me to turning off VR (vibration reduction) mode on my camera. This is great when holding the camera, but when the camera is on a tripod there isn't any movement/vibration, so this mode actually introduces some blurriness as the camera tries to compensate for non-existent vibration. Or something like that.

After taking a photo, then there's post-production. As with my DSLR, I know just enough Photoshop to be dangerous. I kept things simple and just corrected the white balance ("auto" ftw), bumped up the contrast slightly, rotated a bit to level things, and then cropped. I have Photoshop for work so don't need to worry about the cost, but there are cheaper/free alternatives like Affinity Photo and GIMP.

These forums throw up a challenge with the low filesize limit - 2MB is pretty tiny these days and most of the photos I save out from Photoshop end up at around 4-5MB. TinyJPG is a great tool that uses some smarts to optimise image file size without sacrificing much in the way of quality. Results vary but the below "before" photo was reduced from 4.4MB to 1.1MB, and when clicking between the two versions I can't see any difference.

Another trick when optimising JPEGs for display on the web is to reduce the quality rather than the resolution. A larger-res image at 50% quality is, in general, going to be better than a smaller-res image at 100% quality since the larger-res version will be scaled down to fit on the screen, so you actually end up with more detail on screens with a high pixel density (most phones, Apple's "Retina" displays, etc).

Here are my two photo attempts: the "before" was with my phone, close up and with the camera pointing down on the tree' and the "after" with the DSLR on a tripod. An improvement, but still a way to go.

Hopefully this is somewhat useful to someone, or if anyone has tips for me please share!
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by greg27 »

Another attempt, playing around with a lower ISO and smaller aperture. Heading into dangerous territory with the DSLR...

The previous "after" shot was taken in the morning, this one in the afternoon. My photo-taking spot definitely has more even lighting in the afternoon.
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

Looking at the attempt with the DLSR, I can see that the angle etc has worked. Well done.

Also, well done on researching about turning image stabilisation off on the lens if using a tripod. Strictly speaking a tripod shouldn't be necessary, but each to their own.

I'm not sure how much space you have in the area, but I'm wondering if you are right on the edge of the allowable focal distance for the camera? The image is a bit soft.

Whilst it looks more out of focus than the aperture, sometimes certain lens need to be dialled back a bit on the aperture. Too wide open and they are almost impossible to get sharp, or the depth of field is just too small (here you said you have gone a zoom, so you should have a relatively deep DoF for the given aperture). Normally only one notch. Also at the other end, have too small an aperture (>16) and it will also be soft.

Ideally, you would move the plant further away from the wall if you could, but you have to work with what you have got.

Also, I'd use Adobe Lightroom over Photoshop if you have access to it. Better for 99% of image work.
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by legoman_iac »

Two things to try:

- increase the distance between your lovely tree and the backdrop behind, it'll push it out of focus

- can you confirm you're manually focusing? If so, try different points to focus on it, front of pot, front of trunk, favourite branch, etc

But looking great. Next step is fancy lighting and shadows
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by Matt S »

That tree is looking good too!
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by greg27 »

BonsaiBobbie wrote: March 14th, 2022, 11:29 am Ideally, you would move the plant further away from the wall if you could, but you have to work with what you have got.
legoman_iac wrote: March 14th, 2022, 5:08 pm - increase the distance between your lovely tree and the backdrop behind, it'll push it out of focus
Thanks, yes I have the room to move the tree further from the wall - I'll give that a try.

I've been using autofocus, and the softness of the image has been bothering me. I'm using the 55-200 kit lens and tend to go all or nothing on the aperture - I'll try dialling that back a bit.
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

I am also an all or nothing person for my photog too. But here you get to control the elements. You should be able to get the whole tree sharp and have some nice soft background.

There are DoF calculators online (Eg https://www.photopills.com/calculators/dof)

Enter your setup and away you go. This should help you get everything you want in focus. Obviously the further you are away from rear wall the better. But there are other ways to deal with that too (Eg off camera flash - but that is for another day).
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by greg27 »

Another quick attempt with the tree a couple of meters out from the wall. Much better I think.
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

Well done.

Looks much much better. The tree really pops.

Did you focus on the trunk?

I ask because that looks quite sharp (caveat I am looking through my phone) but some of the leaves, whilst much more in focus than before, and perfectly acceptable, appear a little soft still (more because of DOF this time). ie you could still dial back the aperture another few notches. Especially given the beautiful bokeh.

But as I said, I am looking via a phone and am likely wrong.
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by greg27 »

BonsaiBobbie wrote: March 16th, 2022, 7:51 am Did you focus on the trunk?

I ask because that looks quite sharp (caveat I am looking through my phone) but some of the leaves, whilst much more in focus than before, and perfectly acceptable, appear a little soft still (more because of DOF this time). ie you could still dial back the aperture another few notches. Especially given the beautiful bokeh.

But as I said, I am looking via a phone and am likely wrong.
You're spot on - I did focus on the trunk and the leaves do look a bit soft. I'll keep playing with the aperture.

Learning lots here, thanks!
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

greg27 wrote: March 16th, 2022, 8:51 am
BonsaiBobbie wrote: March 16th, 2022, 7:51 am Did you focus on the trunk?

I ask because that looks quite sharp (caveat I am looking through my phone) but some of the leaves, whilst much more in focus than before, and perfectly acceptable, appear a little soft still (more because of DOF this time). ie you could still dial back the aperture another few notches. Especially given the beautiful bokeh.

But as I said, I am looking via a phone and am likely wrong.
You're spot on - I did focus on the trunk and the leaves do look a bit soft. I'll keep playing with the aperture.

Learning lots here, thanks!
Pleasure! I didn't expect to come to a bonsai forum to talk about photography, but I've learnt a bit in the process too, so thanks.

By the looks of it you now understand the principles.

As @legoman_iac said, once you get the hang of things, playing with lighting and shadows is a future step.

As I noted before, I'd consider moving your post processing to Adobe Lightroom (assuming you can get access to it for free). It will make the corrections / workflow easier, especially if you are taking photos in RAW format, and will be one the best things to improve the photos without significant cost upgrades in equipment.

Play with curves, clarity, contrast, etc. You can do a lot to pic, without the complexity of Photoshop. Leave Photoshop for the difficult stuff.

Note, if you are taking photos in RAW format, unless you do some post processing / sharpening, they will almost always look a little flat / soft when you export them. You cannot get away with *not* doing anything.
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

FWIW, I am now looking at the pic via my big screen, and can see that it is a DOF issue this time (before was something more). So well done on correcting whatever was causing the issue.

Eg, it is only the leaves that are closer to the camera that are really out of focus. So definitely a DOF "issue". At times you may want those leaves out of focus to keep the attention on the trunk, etc. It is your pic / plant, you decide where the eye is drawn. Where ever that is.

Great pic, but more importantly ficus!
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by greg27 »

BonsaiBobbie wrote: March 16th, 2022, 10:34 am As I noted before, I'd consider moving your post processing to Adobe Lightroom (assuming you can get access to it for free). It will make the corrections / workflow easier, especially if you are taking photos in RAW format, and will be one the best things to improve the photos without significant cost upgrades in equipment.

Play with curves, clarity, contrast, etc. You can do a lot to pic, without the complexity of Photoshop. Leave Photoshop for the difficult stuff.

Note, if you are taking photos in RAW format, unless you do some post processing / sharpening, they will almost always look a little flat / soft when you export them. You cannot get away with *not* doing anything.
Turns out I have Lightroom available as part of my work CC subscription - installed and I'll give that a try.

That's interesting about RAW photos looking flat/soft. I'll have to play around with that too - right now the camera is only saving a RAW file but I'm pretty sure it has an option to save both RAW and jpeg so I'll try that out and see what the difference is. Sooo many factors at play.
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

Remember if you take both RAW and JPG, you'll dramatically increase the amount of storage, and your camera will take longer to process them (that is more applicable for sports photography and when downloading off the camera).

The beauty of using RAW photos, and is non-destructive edits. This happens to be the beauty of Adobe Lightroom too, whether you are editing RAW or JPG etc. It stores all the edits in a separate file, you play around with it, but don't ever touch the original.

Also RAW gives you a lot more latitude to make correction for white balance / exposure etc. It is why the files are so much bigger (more data is retained), whereas JPG has made decisions for you.

Another vortex you can go down is what colour profile you want to use for JPG...

Enjoy!
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Re: Trying to take better photos

Post by BonsaiBobbie »

greg27 wrote: March 16th, 2022, 2:08 pm That's interesting about RAW photos looking flat/soft. I'll have to play around with that too - right now the camera is only saving a RAW file but I'm pretty sure it has an option to save both RAW and jpeg so I'll try that out and see what the difference is. Sooo many factors at play.
Here "clarity" is probably the first thing you should consider touching, then contrast (there are lots of ways to do this, and it will depend, both using the simple slider, or using "curves" - you may have done this in Photoshop).

And when you export "sharpening" (usually a standard amount is set).

Best to read up on it.

This can all be automated as part of your workflow, if you find what you like.
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