Not quite bonsai

Taking good photo's of your tree's can be challenging. Discuss your ideas and tips here.
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treeman
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by treeman »

MJL wrote: September 1st, 2019, 10:00 pm


And some poetry to finish off:
"the cool breeze
fills the empty vault of heaven
with the voice of the pine-tree"
Basho....''The from the pine tree - learn of the pine tree'' Not necessarily about pines but life in general but in essence it means go to the source to learn about it. eg; You will learn much more about pine trees or any other tree from the tree itself than you ever would from someone telling you about it.

During a talk a while back I showed these sketches to help illustrate the way branches are formed ( after studying a real tree down the road ) and especially those sudden changes of angle you see in the above art and in real trees. You can't use wire to create this. The only way is leader replacement after a hard cut. I think this approach hold one of the secrets for creating that wild natural angular image. It will probably take 3 times as long as a conventional wired tree. It's a sequence and the first one shows a branch formed in the normal bonsai way and the second sketch shows it twisted from the horizontal to the vertical and with some new lower branches removed or shortened. Any one of a million variations could be derived from this and you can repeat it again and again on the one branch letting grow or jinning off as you go - depending on the size of the tree of course.
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B14.jpg
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Keep Calm and Ramify
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

Mr Treeman, isn't what your describing here characteristics of the Chinese Lingnan style "clip & grow" technique?
(TimS sort of touched on this also in his previous post.)
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treeman
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by treeman »

Keep Calm and Ramify wrote: September 2nd, 2019, 1:53 pm Mr Treeman, isn't what your describing here characteristics of the Chinese Lingnan style "clip & grow" technique?
(TimS sort of touched on this also in his previous post.)
No idea. Could be. Show me some Lingnan pines.
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by melbrackstone »

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/RGL3F_9fHTY2 ... NPn78mz-hg

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/hzKE2JG74tRfaJ2MOjiJ2w

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzA5Mz ... t_redirect

Pines https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzI2MT ... t_redirect

Allan Harding shares a lot of Chinese We-Chat pages on facebook...some of these are from his page I use Chrome and have it automagically translate, some of the translations are indecipherable...
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

treeman wrote: September 2nd, 2019, 3:42 pm
No idea. Could be. Show me some Lingnan pines.
No need. I was referring more to your last sequence of branch illustrations posted & the technique of removal you are describing with them. (I always thought that this was the “clip & grow” technique – one that’s not just tailored solely to pine?)
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treeman
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by treeman »

Keep Calm and Ramify wrote: September 2nd, 2019, 4:40 pm
treeman wrote: September 2nd, 2019, 3:42 pm
No idea. Could be. Show me some Lingnan pines.
No need. I was referring more to your last sequence of branch illustrations posted & the technique of removal you are describing with them. (I always thought that this was the “clip & grow” technique – one that’s not just tailored solely to pine?)
Yeah clip and grow but not quite. I was referring more to a way of getting those strong angles in some of the major branches which would need more than just clip and grow - as you go - like we do with deciduous trees. It's more like purposefully selecting a point in on the branch where a sub branch comes off at almost right angles cutting it off at that point, then repeating that on the remaining branch so you get the ''Z'' formation. The few pines in Mel's link still look conventional.
The way pine branches naturally form their shapes (apart from JWP perhaps) is that part of them die off or get torn off leaving a sharp change of direction. Not the smooth lines we always see in bonsai. At least the pines that inspire me do.
You can see it in the is picture......
AC in pine.JPG
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by Matt S »

I wish I could remember the exact details but during the recent Bonsai Masters program at the NBPCA, Mr Kobayashi showed pictures of a recently worked on Juniper (or pine?) where he restyled it from a highly stylised, round domed, clipped-to-within-an-inch-of-its-life form to one that was open, natural and looking a lot like the one Treeman posted earlier (black and white photo of bonsai, second to last picture).
He explained that he no longer chose to create bonsai that won awards and fetched high prices, but preferred styles and forms that reflected what he saw in nature. He even complained about "boring Japanese triangles" that he saw everywhere. The audience applauded. He followed up by saying that the transformation of this tree only took less than a day, but that it took 50 years to reach the conclusion that he needed to change.

Maybe change is coming?

If anyone has the photos he showed I'd love to see them.
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Ryceman3
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by Ryceman3 »

Matt S wrote: September 3rd, 2019, 4:34 pm If anyone has the photos he showed I'd love to see them.
I think you might be referring to these pics Matt?
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treeman
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by treeman »

Matt S wrote: September 3rd, 2019, 4:34 pm
He explained that he no longer chose to create bonsai that won awards and fetched high prices, but preferred styles and forms that reflected what he saw in nature. He even complained about "boring Japanese triangles" that he saw everywhere. The audience applauded. He followed up by saying that the transformation of this tree only took less than a day, but that it took 50 years to reach the conclusion that he needed to change.

Maybe change is coming?

:clap:
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by MJL »

Not sure what path you were expecting this thread to follow MelB but well done for creating a thread is has spawned an excellent discussion. :imo:
Tending bonsai teaches me patience.
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by Keep Calm and Ramify »

Thanks Treeman, that last picture really illustrates well. A slower clip & grow process (or snap & grow?) The jin stubs seem advantageous.
Appreciate all the illustrations & thoughts throughout.
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by terryb »

Here is a shot of some Oriental Plane Tree branches (highlighted in yellow) that show the same characteristics Treeman mentioned above (sorry the photo was through glass).
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by Rory »

treeman wrote: September 3rd, 2019, 8:52 pm
Matt S wrote: September 3rd, 2019, 4:34 pm
He explained that he no longer chose to create bonsai that won awards and fetched high prices, but preferred styles and forms that reflected what he saw in nature. He even complained about "boring Japanese triangles" that he saw everywhere. The audience applauded. He followed up by saying that the transformation of this tree only took less than a day, but that it took 50 years to reach the conclusion that he needed to change.

Maybe change is coming?

:clap:
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I clap your clap....

Kif... get me a DOUBLE clap!
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by MJL »

On the same walk as my last post about bark and I then saw this tree. I then thought about this thread and Treemen's comments. I had a closer look at this tree.
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IMG_6642.jpg
Seems like the natural breaks cause those sharp, random angles.
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Re: Not quite bonsai

Post by melbrackstone »

Not sure what path you were expecting this thread to follow MelB but well done for creating a thread is has spawned an excellent discussion.
I'm always gratified to see threads expand all of our expectations!
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