How Tough/Resilient are Casuarina?

[Per PF]

Good to know about the root cuttings! I've tried a few cuttings, albeit not during optimal time of season, and none have taken...
I've tried soil+pumice , spaghnum and water to grow them in - with or without a clear bag/lid for moisture.
Once I'm ready for the big chop on my darling I'll try an airlayer instead.

[melbrackstone]

Ok, thanks for all the feedback everyone, much appreciated.

I have some old casuarina trees in pure akadama, and a few very old and a few younger trees in my mix with zeolite, scoria, potting mix and diatomite (or whatever is handy.) The pure akadama pot is very shallow, and the trees are coping well, even in the sun on hot days. The ones in the other mix are in combinations of shallow pots and or plastic nursery cans, also doing ok with normal watering. I don't keep any in water trays. I have tried to keep a top dressing of moss and sphagnum on most, with varying success.

As previously stated, I've only lost a couple, and both when they were trunk chopped too hard, with no green left below. Both were in nursery pots with the original nursery mix...(which might have been the problem!)

[shibui]

Good to know about the root cuttings! I've tried a few cuttings, albeit not during optimal time of season, and none have taken...

Casuarina family is not known as easy to strike cuttings.
There are now some prostrate selections that are propagated by cuttings - 'Cousin It', 'Kattang Karpet', 'Shagpile', 'Free Fall' all appear to be forms of Casuarina glauca. I thought there was another prostrate form from another species but cannot find any listing.
I have occasionally managed to strike some cuttings but only from green stems 'needles'. I have not managed to root any older wood cuttings.
I tried C. torulosa a couple of times but have not had any strike so far. It is possible that C. glauca is the only species that will strike.
For those that have access seed is far easier.

I have not tried Casuarina layers. Maybe some who have can share the results.

[Redsonic]

Ok, thanks for all the feedback everyone, much appreciated.

I have some old casuarina trees in pure akadama, and a few very old and a few younger trees in my mix with zeolite, scoria, potting mix and diatomite (or whatever is handy.) The pure akadama pot is very shallow, and the trees are coping well, even in the sun on hot days. The ones in the other mix are in combinations of shallow pots and or plastic nursery cans, also doing ok with normal watering. I don't keep any in water trays. I have tried to keep a top dressing of moss and sphagnum on most, with varying success.

As previously stated, I've only lost a couple, and both when they were trunk chopped too hard, with no green left below. Both were in nursery pots with the original nursery mix...(which might have been the problem!)

My experience is much like yours, Mel. My Casuarina are in my normal mix (25% organic), some in shallow pots, some in training pots, and I would never consider them as thirsty as some other natives (Melaleuca for example).

I had a forest planting of 5 littoralis, chopped them all below green and lost 3. They weren't more than 6 years old, but had the lovely fissured bark already.

I wonder if there are climate/ local variation factors at play here. Both Mel and I are in Brisbane.

[SquatJar]

We're saying the same thing shibui, you just explained it better and in more detail I also agree a wider surface area will evaporate more but I don't know how significant it is. Anecdotally, for pots with substrate but not planted, the top cm or two dries quickly and then the rest stays moist for many days, add a top layer of moss and I'd guess the shallow pot is ahead. This is all theoretical though and would be hard to prove one way or the other with a home experiment once planted. I may try weighing a few of the unplanted pots daily over a week or two if I have time this summer to see if there's any obvious difference.

I think the reason trees grow better in deeper pots is because of a much larger Goldilocks zone. Eg. For optimal root growth, if the top 2cm is too dry and the bottom 2cm is too wet, you may only have 2cm of happy place in a 6cm pot compared to triple that in a 10cm deep pot. Conversely, the roots at the bottom of the pot always seem to be numerous and healthy, so who knows....

In my short 4 years in this hobby I've found deeper pots are certainly easier to grow healthy trees in, but feel that shouldn't stop us striving for shallow pots when we deem it's the best option aesthetically, especially for certain trees or forms. I'll also say if someone keeps the same width pot when going from a shallow to a deeper one, the pot will be far too heavy visually, and no wonder the tree is easier to keep happy in summer, it's in a deeper and more voluminous pot. The health of the tree should always come first, but if we valued health 100% over aesthetics we'd be growing our trees in huge patio pots or better still in the ground.

At the end of the day this whole post is pointless as it's mostly theoretical or anecdotal, although I did do some soil component whc and afp experiments a few years ago.

Everyone should do what works best for them and their trees but I do love thinking about, learning and discussing the constant compromise between the science and artistic endeavours of bonsai and it's likely what keeps me obsessed with this crazy hobby.

[Rory]

At the end of the day this whole post is pointless as it's mostly theoretical or anecdotal, although I did do some soil component whc and afp experiments a few years ago.

Everyone should do what works best for them and their trees but I do love thinking about, learning and discussing the constant compromise between the science and artistic endeavours of bonsai and it's likely what keeps me obsessed with this crazy hobby.

With all due respect, the post is not pointless. Your interactions and admission of a keen interest proves otherwise.
I disagree it is simply theoretical as you may be forgetting that the tree will pull out additional water as well as what the heat and wind dries out from the mix. The environmental effects on the mix is compounded by the tree extracting water to keep the foliage alive. So with the same displacement but a deeper pot, that means more water that the tree has to rely on in severe heat and strong winds.

A dead casuarina tree probably does look better in a shallow pot. It gives it more of a Tim Burton Nightmare look.

[Grant Bowie]

I must admit I gave up growing Casuarina Cunnuinghamiana about 20 years ago as it dried out way too quickly for my liking. I now only grow C Torulosa as it is much tougher in dry mix. You do have to keep them in full sun to get the best results as they can shed branches in a shady spot.

Grant

[Stevie_B]

I was listening to a podcast from an Australian artist who says he only works on ‘exotics’ because the natives’ life spans are only 30 years, and for their propensity to drop their branches for no apparent reason (particularly the eucs). Does this resonate with the more experienced of you folk out there?

[Watto]

I think the so call artist was talking rubbish.
No more to be said!

[TimS]

I’m the least enthusiastic native bonsai person there is, and I don’t quite understand the logic of not growing a tree because it’s short lived at 30 years. Even in just normal gardening people plant annuals to rip them out each year, and lots of people plant boronia which if you get 3+ years out of you’ve done well

That’s plenty long enough to grow and develop a great tree and enjoy it too. Yes some natives have relatively shorter life spans (I think some acacias perhaps?) but most Gums will live for much, much longer. Not to mention for every one ancient exotic you see probably 1000+ died much younger.

Having limbs die off isn’t exclusive to natives either, and it gives the natural look of the Australian trees anyway.

My philosophy is grow what you’re excited about, native or exotic or both.

[Grant Bowie]

The old saying about Natives being short lived is rubbish, propagated by supposed experts who have only killed natives and never took the time to dig deeper and think about the tree as it is; rather than trying techniques suitable for northern hemisphere conifers and deciduous.

Also a lot of people get stuck in their own mindset and never seek help from others.

I think I have proven Banksia are long lived and lots of other people have long term knowledge of other long lived native species, like leptospermum, Melaleuca, Kunzea, Callitris etc.

Grant

[melbrackstone]

The old saying about Natives being short lived is rubbish, propagated by supposed experts who have only killed natives and never took the time to dig deeper and think about the tree as it is; rather than trying techniques suitable for northern hemisphere conifers and deciduous.

Also a lot of people get stuck in their own mindset and never seek help from others.

I think I have proven Banksia are long lived and lots of other people have long term knowledge of other long lived native species, like leptospermum, Melaleuca, Kunzea, Callitris etc.

Grant

and figs!

[Stevie_B]

These all echo my thoughts as well, however without the experience to back them up.
It seemed to me he was grasping at straws.

[GavinG]

The "Australian artist" does not know his facts, and seems quite content not to find out. Mulga (Acacia(!) aneura) can live for up to 400 years and will eventually make great bonsai. Many Eucs grow for more than a hundred years, and some of our bonsai will end up looking like that.

I don't know how long Casuarinas last in the wild, but I've seen some around 20m tall, very aged and complex - I'm sure they will outlive any bonsai grower over twenty years old...

So how old are the oldest Casuarina bonsai in Australia? I must admit I don't really know any.

Gavin

[matlea]

Plenty of Aussie species that will outlive us! On my trips up the coast for the xmas holidays there are plenty of casuarina and melaleuca in the rural areas and national parks that haven’t changed one bit in the 40 odd years I’ve seen them, and they are all mature specimens… will be still here long after I’ve gone!